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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 22, 2005 15:55:04 GMT -5
Kevin who was the ref in that match and who was the guy you were pulling  Is it a Vegas rule that if the elbow comes up it is a foul or is it only if the guy gets an advantage? |
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Post by Kevin Hicklin on Apr 22, 2005 20:41:11 GMT -5
Chris,
I can't remember who the ref was. I was pulling Mike McGraw, and the crowd was counting the fouls out loud!!
Kevin
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 23, 2005 3:03:12 GMT -5
Kevin, After watching it a few times I would say you need to go get a pregnancy check because you were screwed pretty bad lol |
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Post by jamesretarides on Apr 23, 2005 15:38:20 GMT -5
Bob Koshel (sp.) was the ref I saw in that match as I recall. Not positive though.
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 23, 2005 16:28:53 GMT -5
James,
Is the rule that the elbow can come up as long as no advantage is gained? I know AAA rules are that if it comes up at all it is a foul. When you watch the tape the elbows coming up and not called were unbelievable.
I even heard leonard and some of the other ref's saying keep your elbows down but no calls were made against the pullers. I assume the case is that it is not a foul then. Let me know.
Thanks.
Chris
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Post by jamesretarides on Apr 23, 2005 16:50:56 GMT -5
Chris, from my own experience warnings have been issued by refs when pullers have their elbows teetering near the edge of the pad (basically as a heads up). I couldn't answer that in a concrete fashion. You might want to pm Leonard or Keith. I have been at tournaments however that refs would not call a foul if no advantage was gained, however this, I do not believe, was one of those tournaments. |
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Post by Bill Collins on Apr 23, 2005 20:41:01 GMT -5
Chris,
For the most part the referee's were paired up as following, Bob Koshe & Keith M. was on one table, me and Gaylon Gaylon Russell on another, Leonard and Dave Hicks on the last table.
USAA rules, if the elbow comes up and gains position, it's a foul and restart, if the elbow comes up and no position gained, no call.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 23, 2005 23:33:26 GMT -5
What was that crap about giving that smigel guy two fouls on the same elbow foul. He never had a chance to get his elbow back on the pad if he had that chance it wouldnt have went off in the first place dont ya think?
I think that guy got screwed and if that had happened to me i wouldve been extremly angry. I would have had to flip somebodys car over for that one
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 23, 2005 23:49:10 GMT -5
Ok Thanks Bill, I think that rule should be changed because any time I lift my elbow I am stopping my opponent from doing anythin...I am making me arm longer and larger even if for only a moment. Case in point if I am pulling a guy like Craig T he has a hit that he can deliver not just at the beginning but in the middle of the match with lateral pressure and back pressure being applied to him. If I lift my elbow I can stop him from doing that. Also it makes the applying of opinion to great a factor (My opinion |
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Post by leonard on Apr 24, 2005 0:17:46 GMT -5
Chris,
No position gained and no hand change, no call.
We even had complaints that we were stopping too many matches. Guess you can’t please every one. Bye the way when you came to Petaluma that was the rules we used there. ;D
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 24, 2005 0:24:46 GMT -5
I can't remember that far back. I am an old man! What was it like 2 years ago...I can't even remember what I had for lunch today. The big rule that I remembered was the no back pressure rule which I think has since been changed. Without that rule old Jerome Moore will not stand a chance against me With that rule it is hard to question any calls when it comes to the elbow. Do you see what I am saying? That rule should be changed. It's good to know that the Ref's were making calls according to the rules but I think the rule is wrong. If I am pulling at that level my elbow will make a difference in the match, even if for a second. |
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Post by leonard on Apr 24, 2005 0:34:12 GMT -5
Your right it is a balancing act with being too liberal and too strict and not seeing matches finish to a pin. I did see the tape after I posted and they did miss 2 different calls that were position gained. Guess we are not perfect. What ever the rule is the referee's will miss some calls but overall I was proud of the job my referees did. ;D
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Post by Chris Coletti on Apr 24, 2005 0:40:38 GMT -5
Thanks Leonard
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 24, 2005 9:25:44 GMT -5
Leonard,
Please explain why and how that smigel feller got two fouls within 10 seconds? No restart and he didnt have a chance re position. That was an extremly unfair call to me. Is that the rules? The running foul thing. Why shouldn they have restarted the match?
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Post by leonard on Apr 24, 2005 10:30:58 GMT -5
It is in the rules and has been since 1985. It is there so that someone cannot get a restart by simply taking your elbow off the pad and leaving it off. In hindsight with the Europeans not understanding English, I should have modified my rules because they do not understand English good enough. It actually rarely happens, when warned to put your elbow back on the pad the competitor does so. He did not and got his first foul but because there was no hand change and no position gained we did not stop the match. This restarting of the match gives the person that commits the foul an advantage of a new go and the possibility of using a new and different move. Out of all the tournaments that we do only a couple of times a year have an armwrestler not gotten his or her elbow back on the pad and left it there. The referee applied the rule correctly but it is my fault that I did not think ahead enough about the Europeans not understanding the language enough to comply with the rule. I will not let that happen again.
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