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Post by Ryan Thames on May 8, 2011 20:56:21 GMT -5
I have learned a lot about the Muslim perspective politically and religiously.
When people hate me for my questions, discussions and debates. And tell me I have to learn to accept people..... They don't realize that through those controversial discussions I have developed a great deal of respect for the Muslim people. Still vehemently disagreeing with their religious and political views I can say that I understand and respect them a great deal more.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 20:58:56 GMT -5
I greatly respect Muslim people myself. I just don't respect the radicals. I used to think all Muslim people were like then in all honesty when I seen 9/11 happen at the age of 13. I have learned over the years thankfully that you can't judge a person based on their beliefs or skin color. Each person is to be respected or disliked based on their personal character.
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Post by Ryan Thames on May 8, 2011 20:59:07 GMT -5
Let me guess a far fetched conspiracy??? Osama and his followers may have taken credit for it. That means one of two things to me..... They are glory hogs and want to take credit for something they didn't do ...or... Osama and his followers are...."them"
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Post by Ryan Thames on May 8, 2011 21:00:09 GMT -5
There is no doubt in my mind that "they" did it.
My question is.... Is Osama a part of "them" or not?
Or is he simply a pawn a false target, a distraction, an instrument of a large scale sleight if hand?
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:02:25 GMT -5
Them taking credit for it means one thing to me Ryan. They did it which you seem to ignore that they admitted to doing it. This tells me one thing you truly are a full blown conpiracy theorist or you just don't like accepting facts that were laid forth. I admit that there are some conspiracy's that I cannot disagree with, JFK being one. I personally believe he was assassinated because he was going to abolish the federal reserve and give congress back the power to print money and back our money with silver along with gold and bam he conveniently dies then his brother is killed also. That is a conspiracy with stable ground. When you have 9/11 happen and Osama and his followers publicly take credit for it and rejoice what more proof do you need???
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Post by Charlie Minell on May 8, 2011 21:02:51 GMT -5
How is that a punishment for what he has done to the people in the world though?? Innocent men, women, and children??? Just sitting in a cell for the crimes he committed cannot be punishment enough, how do you justify that as the punishment he deserves??? As I said.. it's not comforting enough but I believe it's the only right thing to do. If he did this to my family I would want him to die of course, but I still don't think it's the right thing to do. If we accept this killing mentality when we "don't agree" with people from other cultures we shouldn't complain when they use the same mentality against us when they don't agree with us. I think we should lead by example! If we think torture is a bad thing then we shouldn't torture. If we don't want bombs in our towns we shouldn't bomb other towns if there are other solutions. If we don't believe in uncivilized killing we shouldn't do it ourselves. We shouldn't lowering ourselves to their level.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:05:04 GMT -5
There is no doubt in my mind that "they" did it. My question is.... Is Osama a part of "them" or not? Or is he simply a pawn a false target, a distraction, an instrument of a large scale sleight if hand? Maybe I misunderstood you, your saying that you think Osama was in with the "powers that be" cough cough the power of money or working alone? Thats what you are saying correct I can agree with that statement. I don't know if he was working with "them" but I do know he was the one that orchestrated it. It seems "they" wouldn't kill him for doing what they said but then again "they" are evil right???
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Post by Charlie Minell on May 8, 2011 21:07:03 GMT -5
So.... the answer to get rid of uncivilized people is to be uncivilized ourselves? Osama and people of a nature like his go beyond uncivilized. They are in a league of their own called and evil tyrant who ruin peoples lives. Uncivilized is people that don't cope well with society and no they should not be gotten rid of, but people like Osama who kill innocent people for no reason should reap what they sow. The problem is that all your points here can be seen from the other way around, that it's "us", the "good side", or in this case to be clear - USA, that are seen by many to being the evil tyrant who ruin peoples lives, killing innocent people for no reason etc. etc.
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Post by Michael Wells on May 8, 2011 21:07:17 GMT -5
It's been known for years that Bush and Osama family have been buddy buddies. Bush wanted oil and found a way in and justifying it by calling it patriotism.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:09:00 GMT -5
How is that a punishment for what he has done to the people in the world though?? Innocent men, women, and children??? Just sitting in a cell for the crimes he committed cannot be punishment enough, how do you justify that as the punishment he deserves??? As I said.. it's not comforting enough but I believe it's the only right thing to do. If he did this to my family I would want him to die of course, but I still don't think it's the right thing to do. If we accept this killing mentality when we "don't agree" with people from other cultures we shouldn't complain when they use the same mentality against us when they don't agree with us. I think we should lead by example! If we think torture is a bad thing then we shouldn't torture. If we don't want bombs in our towns we shouldn't bomb other towns if there are other solutions. If we don't believe in uncivilized killing we shouldn't do it ourselves. We shouldn't lowering ourselves to their level. I see your logical argument in this. But you can't sit by and expect evil not to attack you just because you wanna remain peaceful. When someone does attack you your going to retaliate. It's as simple as this. If someone walked up to you Charlie and punched you in the face and kicked your child while they were at it. Are you going to stand there and not do something back?? It is the exact same concept. They acted uncivilized by attacking you and your child, if you retaliate you are going to be acting uncivilized according to you, BUT there is a thing such as "righteous justice". If you defend yourself strictly on the basis of being attacked first then that is righteous and overrules any uncivilized manners you may have shown because you were acting in self defense. Only a coward sits back and lets someone attack them and does absolutely nothing about it. If you let your mind be weak like that you will be a person that gets walked over because the uncivilized person will view you as weak and ripe for the picking.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:12:46 GMT -5
Osama and people of a nature like his go beyond uncivilized. They are in a league of their own called and evil tyrant who ruin peoples lives. Uncivilized is people that don't cope well with society and no they should not be gotten rid of, but people like Osama who kill innocent people for no reason should reap what they sow. The problem is that all your points here can be seen from the other way around, that it's "us", the "good side", or in this case to be clear - USA, that are seen by many to being the evil tyrant who ruin peoples lives, killing innocent people for no reason etc. etc. Your right it can be seen the other way around. But with that being said it doesn't change the truth of the matter. Im sure the innocent muslims that are killed by the extremist also view this man who claims to be following Allah as evil also. This wasn't a man that attacked just the USA he was a "world" terrorist.
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Post by Charlie Minell on May 8, 2011 21:15:34 GMT -5
I respect your view on the subject Charlie and I can see where you come from with the questions you raise, but I politely disagree with it. Evil will always ruin innnocent lives if it is allowed to exist. I agree, the question is what evil is. I think not following human rights are close to that "evil" you are talking about. And I'm far from alone by thinking so. You can't, or shouldn't, fight evil with evil.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:15:47 GMT -5
This is why so many countries that don't want to fight would fall under the oppression of a tyrant. They will stand by and do nothing because they believe by doing so the tyrant will see the error of his ways, while this goes on the tyrant rapes his women, kills his children and treats them as slaves. You can't fight a tyrant with kindness because he feeds off of the weak minded and fuels his desire to conquer. No country ever established itself as country through peace alone.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:17:33 GMT -5
I respect your view on the subject Charlie and I can see where you come from with the questions you raise, but I politely disagree with it. Evil will always ruin innnocent lives if it is allowed to exist. I agree, the question is what evil is. I think not following human rights are close to that "evil" you are talking about. And I'm far from alone by thinking so. You can't, or shouldn't, fight evil with evil. You fight evil with righteous anger. You don't do more than need be you do just enough to keep the peace. Balance must be maintained. You can't fight a war with peace, for you will be slaughtered.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 21:21:16 GMT -5
Evil is and entity that takes away a persons right to do as they please in a peaceful manner. Regardless. Every country has committed and evil deed. When you want to take away a peoples culture and assimilate them to what you want them to be that is evil. When someone attacks and innocent person on purpose and takes their life for not other reason than a just because that is evil, when a man defiles a child that is evil, when you fill a childs mind and heart with the thoughts of a tyrant that is evil, when you rape women that is evil, when you steal from someone because your too lazy to work yourself that is evil, when you sit by and allow evil to happen right before your eyes and do nothing about it that is evil.....
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