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Post by Charlie Minell on May 8, 2011 22:17:18 GMT -5
I didn't say anyone should sit by and expect evil not to attack just because I, or we, want to remain peaceful. I agree "we" should act if someone attacks, but not by following their foot steps and doing exactly the same thing as we condemn them by doing. There are different kinds of retaliation, or acts, and we only have different opinions on what the reaonable "answer" should be. If someone punched me in the face I wouldn't hit him back. I've been in this situation before and I didn't "retaliate". I'm smarter than that...! If I hit him back and he would stabb me with a knife in return I would feel like the biggest idiot in the world.. letting my ego be the reason why my life ended. It would mainly have been due to MY decision. If someone hit my child it would be another story I'm afraid but again, that would be my decision only and I would have to live with the consequenses, or maybe not live with them. We have cops for a reason... You are missing my point again Johnny. I don't mean anyone should sit back and do nothing when they are attacked. I'm only saying that there are rules on what kind of "retaliations" that are acceptable. Even in wars there are rules. For example, it's not allowed to use biological weapons in wars. Another rule is that you have to follow the declaration of human rights, and those rights were not followed when Osama was murdered. Believe me, I don't care about his life as much as it may sound. What I dislike in this mess is that "we", USA, "the good side", or whatever we should call it, AGAIN lowered ourselves to the terrorists' level by using exactly the same methods as they are using. "We" are murdering them because they are murdering us, and then we are hoping that they won't keep murdering us. It's f***** up from the beginning to the end! You can say that you wouldn't hit the man back but who is to say he doesn't pull the knife out after he hits you and uses it too whether you retaliate or not, that is the mindset of a terrorist. You just said if they hit your kid you are going to retaliate. If someone murdered your kid right before your eyes what would you do??? There is a difference in stooping to their level doing exactly the same as them, using a righteous reason to retaliate is not stooping to their level you are missing the point. If you don't attack back they are going to get bolder and do more and more till you eventually fall to them. I feel that I've already answered this in my earlier posts, what I think is ok according to my morals and my view of how things should be handled. Now we are just repeating ourselves with different examples. Again you are talking about "not attacking back" as if that was what I meant with my posts. That's not the case Johnny. I think anyone should act if they are attacked. The question is how, and if the rules should be followed or not.
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Post by Ryan Thames on May 8, 2011 22:18:47 GMT -5
Sometimes it's as simple as that
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Post by Ryan Thames on May 8, 2011 22:19:00 GMT -5
Lol
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:23:18 GMT -5
Who makes the rules and determines if they are right though Charlie???
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:23:59 GMT -5
If you follow the rules blindly while evil doesn't your still going to be crushed under the tyrant.
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Post by John Milne on May 8, 2011 22:28:34 GMT -5
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:33:15 GMT -5
Anyways Charlie this has been a good discussion with you. I enjoyed getting another perspective on this. I wonder what some more of the international community's views are???
I will end with this,
I would say celebrating would be stooping to their level. I could never take happiness out of killing, it's sad that a man would think the way he did and believe the way he did. I would instead mourn that he could not have chosen differently. That is righteous anger. It can't celebrate having to do what it does. It does what it does because it has too. Even though he was evil he had a family that loved him and may not agreed with what he did but loved him just as you love your family. It can never be joyful to have to take someones life. Thats just how my Christian mind feels about it
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:37:21 GMT -5
And how many countries have followed those??? As Charlie said rules come down to opinions and views. Whats right to the people who made those can have no meaning to someone else. "However, the Parties to the conflict may take such measures of control and security in regard to protected persons as may be necessary as a result of the war." thats from article 27
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:38:46 GMT -5
It can be interpreted and twisted just like anything else. Even religious text which teach peace as a basis can be twisted to mean something else. Rules can be done the same way. Evil can exist with or without guidlines.
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Post by John Milne on May 8, 2011 22:38:58 GMT -5
Johnny, I'm not arguing, you asked for something I could provide reference material for. I'm not getting involved in this argument.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 22:47:14 GMT -5
^I know John. Im just saying protocols are ignored by everyone.
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Post by Charlie Minell on May 8, 2011 23:18:02 GMT -5
^I know John. Im just saying protocols are ignored by everyone. Rather by uncivilized persons, groups or countries. Most countries in the world that have agreed to these protocols are following them unlike what you are saying.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 23:50:57 GMT -5
True, but everyone has broken some of the Geneva codes.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on May 8, 2011 23:52:23 GMT -5
We don't know everything that goes on behind closed doors, just what we are allowed to know.
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Post by Charlie Minell on May 9, 2011 0:15:51 GMT -5
True, but everyone has broken some of the Geneva codes. Let's say that this is correct. Does that make it right for another country to also break the "codes" only because other countries haven't been living up to their commitments? Is there really exceptions to when we should pay regard to human rights, Johnny? Human. Rights. Do you see any differences to the camps in North Korea and Guantanamo? I don't. At least not any big ones, except that people aren't getting slaughtered at Guantanamo. But that would be the difference... Human rights are human rights, and if you have commited to follow them you should follow them, and if you don't do it I think the international community should react, just like "we", the "good side", are reacting to different injustices in the world.
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