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Charlie
Sept 12, 2004 15:20:28 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 12, 2004 15:20:28 GMT -5
hey Charlie,you are one of the guys that is interested in armwrestling both in Europe and North America.im listing of my opinion about the best armwrestlers in the world in their weight class excluding myself and i wanna hear your opinion too. starting from 60kg:1-Gokhan Calýsýrisci (Turkey-2001 world champion in Italy) 2-Gocha Gobozov (Russia) 3-Ivan Portela (Spain) 65kg: 1-Roman Cindilliani ( Russia) 2- Gokhan Calýsirisci 3-Topi Saaranlouma ( Finland)
70kg: 1-Ramiddin Kazimagomadov ( Russia) 2-RJ Molinaire (USA) 3-Nikolai Grigoriev ( Russia)
75:1-Tzvetan Gashevski ( Bulgaria) 2-Vephkia Samkaradze ( Georgia) 3-Shamil Karajaev ( Russia) 80:1-Rustam Babaev ( Ukraine) 2-Niyazi Kurt ( Turkey)world and european champion is back after a major elbow surgery and now he s the best in Turkey 3-Taimuras Tschakilov ( Russia)
85kg:1-Genady Fadzinov( Russia) 2-Rustam Babaev ( Ukraine) 3-Maxim Maximov ( USA)
90kg:1-John Brzenk ( USA) 2-Artem Klimenko ( Russia) 3-Ivakin Taras ( Ukraine)
100kg:1-John Brzenk ( USA) 2-Ron Bath ( USA) 3-Jan Germanus ( Slovakia)
110kg:1-John Brzenk ( USA) 2-Ibragim Ibragimov ( Russia) 3-Oleksy Semerenko ( Ukraine)
+110kg:1-John Brzenk ( USA) 2-Matt Girdner ( USA) 3-Travis Bagent ( USA)
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Charlie
Sept 12, 2004 16:42:15 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 12, 2004 16:42:15 GMT -5
Ok... I haven't been at the last European or the Worlds, but I've looked at the results and will try to make a list of what I know and think. Some of it are wild guesses and speculations.
1. It's hard to do a list like this when we have the two weightclass systems. 2. I have to add that I don't know that much about the lower weightclasses in USA, so I might miss some great names. 3. It's also hard to know if people are retired or not.
60 kg 1. Gocha Gobozov, Russia 2. Ivan Portela, Spain 3. Tagir Magomedov, Russia (wild guess)
65 kg 1. Roman Tzindeliani, Russia 2. Topi Saaranluoma, Finland 3. Devin Bair, USA (or Rick Soliwoda)
70 kg 1. Engin Terzi, Turkey 2. Nikolay Grigoriev, Russia (Engin.. how did you beat this guy in left? Incredible!) 3. RJ Molinere, USA (or Nariman Salikhov)
75 kg 1. Tzvetan Gashevski, Bulgaria 2. Engin Terzi, Turkey (if you are in -75) 3. Vepkia Samkaradze, Georgia or Shamil Karajaev, Russia 4. Sergey Pisarkov, Russia
80 kg 1. Rustam Babayev, Ukraine 2. Taimuras Tsakhilov, Russia 3. George Iszakouits, Canada (maybe Bondo Khubulov, Russia or Ozgur Kizgin, Turkey)
85 kg 1. Maxim Maximov, Russia 2. Michael Selearis, USA (maybe 3rd place) 3. Alex Maskevich, Belarus (maybe 2nd place) 4. Stoyan Golemanov, Bulgaria (he might even win against Alex M.)
90 kg 1. John Brzenk, USA (if he is 90 kg) 2. Artem Klimenko, Russia 3. Taras Ivakin, Ukraine
100 kg 1. John Brzenk, USA 2. Ron Bath, USA 3. Jan Germanus, Slovakia
-110 kg 1. Ibragim Ibragimov, Russia (John 1st if he pulls here) 2. Oleksey Semerenko, Ukraine 3. Alexander Fugarov, Kazakhstan
+110 kg 1. John Brzenk 2. Matt Girdner, USA (I think he will shock the world and beat Voevoda inside) 3.Travis Bagent, USA or Alexey Voevoda, Russia (I honestly have NO CLUE!!!)
It's hard to speculate about Alan Karaev, Russia. I think he would win against Matt (if he is in the same shape as -01) but he would get more problems against toprollers like Bagent and Voevoda.
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Charlie
Sept 12, 2004 18:40:52 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 12, 2004 18:40:52 GMT -5
Engin, who do you think has the strongest hook in the world overall? And what about toproll?
My list for hook:
1. Alan Karaev (if he is in the same shape as in -01) 2. John Brzenk 3. Matt Girdner 4. Ibragim Ibragimov 5. Jan Germanus
Toproll:
1. John Brzenk 2. Alexey Voevoda or Travis Bagent 3. Ibragim Ibragimov 4. Ron Bath 5. Taras Ivakin
This was harder than I thought... it doesn't feel right to leave Barbosa and Larratt outside the list, but the list has to end somewhere...
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Charlie
Sept 12, 2004 21:19:15 GMT -5
Post by Christopher Myers on Sept 12, 2004 21:19:15 GMT -5
Charlie,
R you going to be at the Zloty? I look forward to seeing you if you do! Is Andreas Going? I hope so also I would love to watch him compete! I cant Wait to get there Christopher Myers
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Charlie
Sept 12, 2004 21:37:38 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 12, 2004 21:37:38 GMT -5
Yes Chris, I will be there! We are 10 swedes that will come to Zloty. Andreas Rundstrom and Sharon Remez are two of them. Andreas has been partying harder than usual and was 84 kg not long ago. He will pull -95, but he hasn't trained for a long time. Not even once since we came home from the States. He pulls just for fun.
Sharon is 78 kg now (believe it or not) and I can't wait to see him against Babayev. If there is anyone out there that can toproll Babayev, I think Sharon is the one. He might not be in the same shape as he was before, but I wouldn't want to meet him if I was 78 kg. (not even if I was 178 kg.. ;D)
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 4:16:53 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 4:16:53 GMT -5
Gokhan from Turkey has beaten Tagir from Russia at the disabled class in Poland so easily.Gokhan didnt compete senior class because of some official problems but he plays with Gocha everytime they pull.Gokhan also took 1. while Portela was 3. in Italy. i beat Grigoriev in an eye blink with left and right.Dursun and Ozgur from Turkey beat George in a second at springfield and Canada worlds.Niyazi from Turkey so easily beats Ozgur and Dursun.i also change my mind about 85kg,Genaddy Fadzinov is 1.,Rustam Babaev is 2.,Maxim Maximov is 3.. John pull there and wins 110kg!!!i didnt have nothing to write about Alan Karaev because i dont know if he still armwrestles.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 4:33:19 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 4:33:19 GMT -5
Andreas should pull 78kg.yeah but from other side 78kg is very hard to win,and he already knows that he wont have chance in 95kg.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 5:04:19 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 5:04:19 GMT -5
its so hard to say who has best toproll or who has best hook.i have seen strange matches that confuses me.so i only can guess who is best no matter what style he uses since winning s the thing that matters.what makes John best is his capability,experience and intelligence.by having all these also strength, he finds the weakest part of his opponent and beat them.to me it doesnt matter how you beat your opponent. i saw the pictures of the matches between John and Kanai from Japan,at the last match John beats the guy with a shoulder roll (i believe:)),i would never think that John would use a style like that.i think winning is hidden in a person's spirit,and he has it more than anyone. Vakthang Javathadze from Georgia has beaten Alan Karaev everytime he hooked him!! Ron Bath easily beat Ibragim in Canada,that Ibragim didnt even try to go inside.you listed Taras but Klimenko toprolled him so good that we should let our new comers to watch it as a lesson about toproll.John couldnt stop Barbosa's back pressure in the strap at Nevada( maybe he didnt feel good).so its hard to say who has what. but i can tell you who is the best toproller of all times pound for pound!!! Cobra Rhodes!!!!! no doubt.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 6:41:44 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 13, 2004 6:41:44 GMT -5
Ok.. I'll start from the beginning...
I did a wild guess about Tagir... I don't even know who Gokhan is. 2001 was a long time ago. Portela is much better now than he was in Italy. He lost to Lorenzo Villar in 2001 but he plays with him now. He has developed a lot since that. I didn't really know about Ozgur and Dursun so I guessed with Crazy George. I don't know who Genaddy Fadzinov is. I think I've heard his last name, but that's all. Why do you list him before Maxim? Have they met or is he that good that you think he WOULD beat him?
I think Andreas should pull 78 kg when he has trained. I hate to see him lose against pullers he crushed just a few years ago. He first told me that he just would go to Poland for the beers and to see the other guys pull, but now he changed his mind. Why not pull if he is there?
John pulled more with the shoulder roll before. Last time I saw him use it was against Devon Larratt. I've seen it against Ed Arnold, Gary Goodridge, Johnny Walker, Ýoshinobu Kanai etc.
I didn't mention Vakthang, because he hasn't pulled for a long time what I know. I haven't seen anything about him since -99. Cleve Dean pulled 2001 but I didn't list his toproll over Taras, even if I think he would beat him. If we're talking best hook ever and best toproll ever, I would mention Gary, Sharon, Cleve, Lupkas etc. But as you said... it's very hard to do a list like this. Probably impossible and get it 100% correct.
I know that Ron beat Ibragim in -98... but yeah.... that was -98. Ibragim is MUCH stronger now! I can't know for sure of course, but I think he would probably win now.
I agree that Cobra had the best toproll ever, pound for pound! (-99) Maxim comes to my mind, but it's impossible to compare them.
Oh... and I didn't mention Klimenko's toproll before Taras because I thought Klimenko pulled more sideways... half-hook, half-toproll, but I looked again at the clip and you're right. I hate to say it, but Klimenko is probably better in the toproll. I would like to see them in one of Igor's Vendettas. I think Taras would win if they met 5 times.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 10:49:53 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 10:49:53 GMT -5
Portela has lost to Gocha in 02 in europeans,Portela competed 55kg Lorenzo competed 60kg at Italy worlds.Ozgur is last year's world champion in Canada,n he took 2.to Rustam in Poland.he s 2 times world and 2 times european champion.Dursun took 2. to Klimenko at Springfield worlds.they both beat George in an eye blink.Fadzinov has beat Taras in 02 europeans and sent him to the losers bracket but lost twice in the final but after a killing battle!!!!!he is also world and european champion.he won worlds Italy01,Egypt02,03Russia.once he stops you where he wants then you lose.there s a match between him and and Sergei Ivanov from Ukraine that you can watch at proarm videos. armwrestling level got real high since 96 or 97!!! there s another correction i need to make about Andreas,he didnt realy beat Gashevski as you wrote at your site.Gashevski beat everyone so easily including Andreas in an eye blink.but he just let it go since everyone has seen that was over except blind ref:)and Andreas just put him down while Gashevski already thought that it was over.i have video tape and one needs to be blind to not to see that it was over. John shoulder rolled Devon but it was after the time im talking about about,more than a year after he beat Kanai:).and others i didnt have video tape to see,but it doesnt make any difference that John uses this style so seldom. i dont think Taras would beat Klimenko even if they meet 5 times because 2. time he beat Taras was much easier than the 1. time. because he had more confidence 2. time.at their 1. match he tried to hook Taras and he lost.it means that he had been thinking that it was harder to toproll Taras and he tried hook.1. time he tried toproll he didnt really think that it would be easy but he won.when he won i saw his eyes.he suprised himself but 2. time he was more confident and it was much!!easier. Ibragim is much stronger now but i wish you were there when Matt Girdner almost broke his arm!!!!!!!!! so i really dont believe that he is stronger than Ron.Vaktang beat Karaev again in 00 europeans so easily and with hook.and believe me that Alan can toproll Taras so easy:). please dont compare Maxim with Cobra,yes Sharon is one of the greatest toproller but pound for pound there s no one close to Cobra believe me.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 11:53:16 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 13, 2004 11:53:16 GMT -5
I meant Worlds in Poland 2001. Portela was 3rd and Villar won. Portela is better now than he was back then. You know more than me about some armwrestlers, especially Turkish ones. All I wanted to say is that Portela IS better now than before.
I have the tape also and I was there. Andreas DID beat Gashevski. Andreas won the start, but Gashevski caught him and pulled almost down to the pad, but Andreas got into a better and better position in the toproll on the way down. Andreas turned the match over when their hands were very close to the pad and he won the match. Tzvetan tried to hook but Andreas almost took his wrist in the toproll so Tzvetan stopped pulling so he wouldn't lose the wrist. Do you have the tape when the match goes in slow motion? You can clearly see that the hands are NOT down in the pad! Andreas got into a better position or Tzvetan did a mistake and didn't finish the match all the way down. Tzvetan did absolutely not finish the match in an eyeblink!
Matt has beaten both Ibragim and Ron lately. I don't think Ibragim can beat Matt inside... no chance. But I think Ibragim would be tough for Ron to beat today. Ibragim was relatively new to the sport in -98 and has developed a lot the last 6 years, probably more than Ron that has been in the sport for so long.
A lot of what I say on the net is my own opinions. I don't say that I am right in everything I write about. I can be SO wrong about Ron and Ibragim, Klimenko and Taras etc. I often say what I THINK from what I've seen. You often say what you KNOW. You have seen much more of international armwrestling than me, so I can sometimes only speculate about stuff. Big and important differences!!!
I didn't compare Maxim and Cobra. I said that it was impossible to compare them.
EDIT: If Maxim and Cobra were in the same weightclass it would be easier.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 14:41:50 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 14:41:50 GMT -5
Portela went to Russia for last year's worlds and he lost.he s better when there s no Gokhan or Gocha.Andreas beat Gashevski when Gashevski let it go because it was over.Gashevski put him down as he reacted.i have many results when they met and Andreas always finished behind Gashevski including that tournament.Gashevski beat everyone in that event including Fischer,Shamil,Tamas,Borisenko,Bondaruk,Andreas,while Andreas lost to Shamil,Allen Fischer,Gashevski,even to Bondaruk!!!!!!!!Gashevski beat those guys easily.even this s a clear prove about the level of those two.,everyone that has seen tape agrees me but i guess except you.go and ask Igor he will tell you the truth.if Gashevski didnt let it go Andreas could never win.you can also ask to Gashevski if he let go because he won or if it was as you wrote.then we both can stop guessing and find the truth that was in his head at that time. Ibragim wasnt new to the sport in 98 since he competed 96 worlds and placed 2. at the 97 worlds in India behind Erekle.i have seen an video at pulling John where Ron beats Matt easily in overall too.so Ron even beats John time to time.Ibragim could never win to John. i also didnt say that you compared Maxim with Cobra,i said please dont because you mentioned his name too.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 15:08:43 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 15:08:43 GMT -5
i just talked to Ania,Igor's gf and also secretary,and she told me that she was there too when the match happenned between Andreas and Gashevski.she told me that even Andreas agreed to pull again because Gashevski let it go by thinking that he already won.i also talked to Assen just to be sure,as you know he is the president of EAF.he also agreed with me that Gashevski won the match but ref didnt see.Igor agrees with me too,because i read on his site ,also his girlfriend just told me that Igor thinks this way too.i can imagine your feelings about your friend but it didnt happen as you wrote Charlie.
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 15:16:07 GMT -5
Post by Charlie Minell on Sept 13, 2004 15:16:07 GMT -5
All of those you mentioned have good contact with Tzvetan, especially Assen. I would be surprised if they said that Andreas won the match. I wish I could upload the clip from my camera angle but I can't do it because of the copyrights.
Why did they show the match twice, one time in slow motion? It was the only match they showed in slow motion on the tape. They did it because it was hard to tell who the winner was. I have the tape and can't change my opinion about this. I can clearly see that Andreas caught him and won. Do you have the version with the slow motion?
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Charlie
Sept 13, 2004 15:17:28 GMT -5
Post by enginterzi on Sept 13, 2004 15:17:28 GMT -5
these are from Igor;Gashevski went very fast and moved his opponent's hand just over the pin. It cannot be denied, but... he could handle the Swede. Referees didn't notice such quick action
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