your opinion of the bible

[John Wilson]

There is a good reason that the Bible (Old Testament in particular) is the primary reference for archaeologists. It's always correct, and every time someone tries to disprove it the bible always eventually is proven correct again.

[John Wilson]

Sept 11, 2013 0:24:20 GMT -5 Jacob Hale said:

I concur (as usual) with everything John Wilson said. I would add only one thing. We must remember that as human subjects, we do not have the ability to examine any "thing in itself" but only the thing as it "appears" to us. In other words, we can never escape ourselves and see things objectively. because of that, we bring as much to the table of interpretation as the thing itself brings to us. In this case, the Bible, a thing, is always interpreted. Always. We cannot escape this. So this begs a further question, if the Bible is a collection of books, written in human language, who's interpretation of the Bible most accurately reflects the meaning that God intended it to convey. Are all interpretations valid? certainly not. Just ask the family members of the Jonesville victims. Is it all relative? no way. Who then holds the correct interpretation of the Bible? I believe God gave his Holy spirit to His church to discern the meaning of sacred scripture. That Church is marked by the apostolic authority Given by Christ to Peter and his apostles and has been passed down to us today. That Church consists of those bodies who are full communion with Roman Catholic Church. Anything else is hermeneutical anarchy.

fantastic post.

I also agree that the Catholic Catechesis is the most complete, doctrinally sound source of Christian biblical interpretation. There will always be things that people will disagree on, especially when doctrine has a tenuous relationship to scripture and that applies to every denomination because there is enough of that to go around.

If anyone is not familiar with the Catholic Cathechesis you can buy one at any book store. Every Catholic gets a cliff-notes copy when they go through Confirmation. The catechesis is simply a book that states what the Catholic Church believes. It is backed up with scripture and explained. 2000 years of explanation, and every single Priest in every single church goes by the same book. If you want to know the Catholic stance on something, it's in there.

In my years in protestant churches I am not aware of any such denominational catechesis. Pastors go to divinity school and then go forth to interpret the bible as they see fit, with various levels of success. While a Catholic priest may or may not agree with Catholic doctrine, there is not doubt what official doctrine is on the matter.

A conversation we had once upon a time about the Eastern church really sparked my interest. How do the Eastern churches square with the Catholic catechesis? Do they have a separate one, or is it the original version before the Papal canons began to be issued?

[John Wilson]

I would love to see a thread where everyone can discuss doctrine and what their faith and experience has brought them to believe- as compared to doctrine.

I grew up believing a lot of things because that's what I was taught. A lot of it turned out to be wrong, or at least not nearly as simple as I had been led to believe.

[John Shipes]

I saw pope's throne a sign of downcross. that downcross is satanism

you look at


Roman Catholic Church is satanism aslo antchrist. that satanism is antchrist.

[Robert Bishop]

we have talked a lot about the church in another thread so i will not go into that

but
i believe for sure that there is something wrong/wicked about the new pope


he could be the false prophet/last pope like the prophecy of the popes has it listed idk

i think i remember Leo Zagami saying that there is two heads with one being the pope and the other being the president of the United States idk----------Mystery Babylon maybe?

idk
i know there is many good catholics who will make it to heaven even though many church traditions are wrong and some that are wicked

[Jacob Hale]

John, Here is a good reference.

www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm

[Robert Bishop]

who can argue against this
www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

[John Wilson]

I just saw this. thanks for sharing. that is really good.

[John Wilson]

I bothched an earlier post where I quoted Robert.

I had intended to modify my response about "only time will tell" concerning this new pope. Well, time has told. The guy is a disaster.

The church has an apostate pope. I wonder if we'll have another John Paul I. (30 day pope)

[Chris Kaufman]

Sept 17, 2013 2:34:33 GMT -5 Robert Bishop said:

who can argue against this
www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

Could that be because of the parallels between the bible and other religions before it?

There are some very interesting similarities between Jesus and other Pagan jobs from years before.

[Jonathan Skinner]

I apologize for not following your discussion here, but I wanted to share my view and experience.

First, I do believe the KJV is 100% the word of God. The scriptures are personally my favorite topic of discussion so it's nice to see this communication between you guys.
Without going of to far on a tangent, (I'm liable to do without checking myself), I believe we all agree that Christianity is a religion or a life of faith. It's what allows us believers to live with joy when nonbelievers think we should be fearful or scared about various situations in life. It also provides detractors and opposers of Christianity the seemingly easy(to them) rebuttal of anything we, as Christians, believe. So that, while the items of belief we cannot physically tie down or prove, in the sense one proves gravity exist by dropping an apple. Those items strengthen a believers faith while simultaneously cause a nonbeliever to shake his/her head wondering how seemingly intelligent people could believe such folly.


I believe, it's for that reason there will always be these discussions(which are good and healthy) but most minds will not change without a personal revelation in ones own life.

To me it's just a matter of believe it all or none of it. Because if I try or any other man tries to deduce who wrote based on Gods inspiration or their own it can never be verified. And then I'm placing my salvation into my own hands, as arm wrestlers we all know how dependable they are.. Lol. But, just like in Armwrestling, when someone comes along with a stronger hand or a sly maneuver we end up with a broken wrist wondering why our hand didnt hold up. After all we know it felt as strong as ever.

So, when Paul says- All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: I choose to believe it. Because if I refute that scripture I might aswell throw the whole bible away because at that point I'm just following another man, and for me that is not acceptable.

For the argument people being about which version is "right" and how can one say the bible today is what God intended it to be I have this answer. And once again, it's a matter of faith. I do agree with what John Wilson brought forth concerning those that attempt to disprove the bible. How they end up proving its historical relevance but when it comes to the bibles teachings on morality and salvation. On Noah or Creation for that matter, there's simply no way to evidence those teachings. No way to "show" that they are "true" but this is Gods plan. For without faith it is impossible to please God. If it were proven 1000% that all the scriptures are truth there would be no more faith. There would be no need to choose God as it would become the only reasonable option. And it's shown and taught throughout scripture we must have faith. --- that was one of those tangents I mentioned.. Lol ---

Back on point, when asked why I think KJV is the "right" version it's a simple faith answer. My Fairh tells me, that God does not want anyone to perish, no one to go to a hell created for satan not humanity. So, that being true, My faith says there's no way God would provide the world he created with a road map for salvation(bible) for over 400 years that is false in any way.

I wrote this up on my phone so I hope it comes over ok and looking forward to more discussion.

[John Wilson]

Fantastic post, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Skinner]

Thanks John

[Jonathan Skinner]

Sept 17, 2013 2:34:33 GMT -5 Robert Bishop said:

who can argue against this
www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

Most nonbelievers will refute this easily (logically).

One cannot prove something is true with itself. "Oh, so the bible is true because... It says it is?" That's not valid reasoning for someone who doesn't already believe its true.

Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Just trying to sharpen one another, the more we(believers) are aware of the arguments and rebuttals to the faith, the better prepared we can be to defend it.

[Danny Estrada]

my opinion on the bible? its just a book written by men who were trying to figure out their place in the world. mythical stories

ive been an atheist for 2 years now and i freaking love it! i dont have to go to church and pretend to pray to a fictional character and i dont have to worry about burning in a place that doesnt exist for all eternity. check this vid out