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Post by simon on Jul 5, 2006 19:50:44 GMT -5
Well said... no need to re-invent the wheel.
No one is saying to re invent the wheel, but we need to get off of the heavy steel rims and white wall tires and get into some high performance shoes, because the way things are now we are moving at a snails pace.
"Keep doing what you've been doing and you will keep getting what you have already."
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Post by guy on Jul 5, 2006 20:45:31 GMT -5
But we do know your kungfu is strong, your damn good on the table and even lefty. Though your energy states that leftys arm-wrestling should be reserved for those in France only.
P.S If Italy loses to France in the World cup, the World and future wars may never be the same
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Post by Ryan Espey on Jul 5, 2006 22:50:35 GMT -5
Simon... putting on a tournament with every match in the straps is not going to save or even help the sport. More likely it will drive us further into obscurity because the general public won't know what the hell is going on.
I also recall matches where one of the pullers slipped intentionally becasue he was better in the straps... so it goes both ways.
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 5, 2006 23:36:54 GMT -5
Certainly you can still play in the strap but not as much because if it is done properly you are smashed together. By starting in the strap you bypass the intentionally not getting a grip call. You bypass a lot of the games played while getting a grip because you have so little room to move, the amount you can is limited and there for less time consuming to deal with, I would bet there will be fewer refs grips this way. You bypass the slip and a restart. You bypass the intentional slip and a restart on either end of the table You bypass the slip in a losing position (a tough subjective call as is the reality of an intentional slip) You bypass horrible hand fighting matches where you are just waiting for or you get stopped before a slip. You bypass the guys that just let go on the go. Also by all accounts the strap creates the truest test of which puller is better that day, everyone has seen someone make a match out of it free handed as they do no more than try to escape or let go, then in turn when they get the strap that guy trying to let go gets slammed. I seem to recall a Swiss guy you pulled Engin where exactly that happened. Simon sometimes having little room can cause late grips too because you can not get what you want. the most important is there are so many matches that end without strap,so this saves a lot of time.because putting the strap on is a problem that is no less than getting a grip without strap. also when we started to count the problems i can again tell you that if a foul happens in strap there have been many times that i saw when the ref took the strap off and put it once again. Simon,i remember the matches between John Brzenk and Marcio Barbosa in 2003 lake tahoe.if i am not mistaking you were there too. John beat Marcio after a long hook match without strap,then in the final match Marcio and John slipped apart and Marcio very easily beat John in the strap match with a strong back pressure before the go followed by a strong side pressure. so at their third and last match Marcio would again have won the match if it could directly started in the strap because the strength difference between the athletes (in the strap) was clear on that day, but John did not let a slip to happen and used his experience to win a match in hook. so there are some matches in strap that can give us different results than if they were without strap. another example,Rustam Babayev beat Gashevski 9 times in a row and all these matches were without strap.Babayev was having a low strong grip and was unabling Gashevski' movement.but at their last pull Gashevski was able to slip apart finally and beat Rustam in the strap match. so i do not think that it is a fair idea to take the winning chance of armrestlers who can use their tecniques well without strap.
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 5, 2006 23:38:55 GMT -5
by the way,same Swiss guy tried to slip apart from the hands of RJ Molinaire only a match after our match but he was not able to make this happen because RJ's grip was stronger than mine and RJ just tricepped him down while he was trying to get out of RJ's hand.
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Jul 6, 2006 0:00:30 GMT -5
Isn't it great how Toddzilla doesn't post much and then comes on and gets everyone all up in a frenzy. Gotta love it!!!!! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) He's a beast, wish i had half the dedication.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Jul 6, 2006 0:16:28 GMT -5
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 6, 2006 0:48:34 GMT -5
Isn't it great how Toddzilla doesn't post much and then comes on and gets everyone all up in a frenzy. Gotta love it!!!!! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) He's a beast, wish i had half the dedication. i think it is a bit about bothering people in the way that he described his thoughts. "bunch of incompetent, ignorant, 1 dimensional, non learning, non innovating, public school educated, flatulent butt heads. " "You dunderheads " which is not very hard thing to do IMO.
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Post by BigDaddyJoe™ on Jul 6, 2006 7:43:19 GMT -5
I personally think that a tournament like this won't determine who's better or whatever than whom, but it would be very cool to have a tournament like this.
Think of baseball.....they have their normal games and then once a year they have a home run derby. Just because David Ortiz or Manny Ramirez hits 300 home runs in one day doesn't make them the best baseball players alive, but it shows what they can do with a bat.
So arm-wrestling, just because someone wins in the straps a lot, doesn't mean they are the greatest arm wrestler(s) alive, but ITS FUN to have a tournament like this. It's not adjusting the WORLD SERIES, it's not trying to CHANGE arm wrestling. It's a freaking tournament. We are all here to have fun and see how we're doing. Why people are jumping to conclusions and getting all offensive thinking Pete is trying to change the sport, your ridiculous and need to get a life and a reality check
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Post by Will Sarty on Jul 6, 2006 8:33:02 GMT -5
Well put!!
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Post by simon on Jul 6, 2006 10:18:55 GMT -5
by the way,same Swiss guy tried to slip apart from the hands of RJ Molinaire only a match after our match but he was not able to make this happen because RJ's grip was stronger than mine and RJ just tricepped him down while he was trying to get out of RJ's hand. I know I watch it regularly but I disagree with the reason, RJ's hit is more a sidepressure roll which gives the guy less room to slip under than your hit which is more back to the corner, this along with the velocity of your hit made it easier for him to get loose. RJ's hit was more deliberate and to the side, this caused the Swiss guy to have to go through more hand on RJ (because he was slipping under) and he could not get away before RJ latched on and pressed him. That is the way I see it when I watch the DVD.
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Post by simon on Jul 6, 2006 10:58:58 GMT -5
Simon... putting on a tournament with every match in the straps is not going to save or even help the sport. More likely it will drive us further into obscurity because the general public won't know what the hell is going on. I also recall matches where one of the pullers slipped intentionally becasue he was better in the straps... so it goes both ways. Our sport is plagued by BS rules, subjective calls and in general pullers that work far harder at figuring out how not to lose rather than how to win, we have all seen it. It is pretty hard to get fans interested in armwrestling when in many matches no one gets pinned, and the matches are decided by rules and infractions the audience cannot understand, and when matches are 95% nonsense and 5% action. So in general though no one thing is going to save this sport we need to make some changes to eliminate all the BS and to get to something people can understand and get their head around, it is a simple sport it needs to get back to that. Now I would bet my last buck that if we suddenly all agreed and every armwrestling match ever held from this day forward was done in the strap it would not make this sport any more obscure than it already is, because no one cares, are we really to believe this change would turn off fans, what fans, turn off the TV hard to believe they would know the difference or care. So how could it possibly hurt this sport, the only people who care are the armwrestlers and if we agree or the majority agrees to make any change how could it push us further out than we are now? Intentional slip because they are better in the strap? How about they are better period and the strap only confirms it. We talk about getting this sport into the schools is that we should be teaching the kids, how to avoid a fair grip, how to fight delay an defer to get a refs grip, how to simply let go and make the other guy be the only one holding on, how to avail yourself of every early start, elbow foul and how not to to lose trick that currently comes with this sport, or should we teach them how to get good enough to win and be a good sport about it when someone is at the time better than them. This is not a home run derby in my mind it is the kind of thinking that needs to be done in order to give this sport more mass appeal to an audience, maybe not this strap only idea but anything that eliminates the nonsense and gets us back to the simplistic version of this sport that everyone can appreciate. The NBA added the slam dunk the 3 pointer, the shot clock, no zone defense etc etc all to improve the appeal of the game all major changes but it has worked well, I am simply saying we need to stop clinging to legacy items and work on advancing this sport, stop complaining about how other sports get ahead of us in this sporting world and look at ourselves to change what needs to be changed. What we are doing now is not getting it done.
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Post by simon on Jul 6, 2006 11:03:23 GMT -5
I think this could be a viable change to the sport but for now it is just a twist at one little event what is so wrong just letting it happen, supporting it and then judging what it brings, just maybe we find out there is something viable here.
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Post by Ryan Espey on Jul 6, 2006 11:15:59 GMT -5
Simon I would be happy to talk about this further with you... you know where to find me.
Time to fade into the shadows again. See ya.
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Post by P-O Svedberg on Jul 6, 2006 11:31:24 GMT -5
Well yea id go because i love competing, but i dont want to see all tournaments being strap only.
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