Travis again?

[leonard]

Chris,
I was in the congres and the meetings and what Simon is saying is TRUE.

[simon]

Chris, Chris, Chris, how can you say they were not first hand, I was first hand abused by CB I was first hand involved in the outing of Heather, that is first hand, the lies told to me by Karen were first hand. Your inability to disprove these facts or even to look at these items objectively completely discredits anything you say. You whine about people double talking what the hell do you call what you are doing, put up Chris we had a deal now prove my first hand experiences with the AAA are wrong or concede. I have done the research I have asked the questions of the people involved you need to do the same unless you are afraid of the truth.

1 Karen posted on the AAA board that she knew who everybody was, myself and many people saw it, second Dave Devoto has it on audio tape from the Las Vegas meeting where Karen claims she knows who everybody was on that board. So you are flat wrong Chris, Karen probably just lied to you about not being able to find out who these people were because she was protecting more of her hidden friends.

2 OK now my word is in question why because I have ever lied to you? Karen said those exact words to me and per our agreement on this discussion you cannot prove to the contrary now can you? How about the officers of the WAF that told me her proposal was not voted on, prove to me that this statement is not true, that was the requirement, I have credible witnesses from the people that did the action what do you have? Please go ask the people present in the room whether or not it was voted on, they will tell you it was not, hell ask Karen see if she claims to the contrary.

3 Again the officers of the WAF that were present told me that they knew she did not have the authority to negotiate on behalf of the Das WAF, the fact that she did not have this authority was in fact proven in Das’s public letter stating that no one person has the authority to negotiate on behalf of their WAF hence why the unification proposal was dismissed by Das, talk about BS double talk Chris, man prove me wrong or concede, that was the deal. They did nothing with Karen’s proposal, another one was drafted for consideration, they proceeded on voting on that proposal in hopes that the Das WAF maybe would consider it, with Karen acting as the messenger to take the proposal back. Not to mention that if the Roy WAF did not let Karen leave with a unification proposal the AAA/WAF would try to spin it as them not wanting to unify.

The rest of this, now I know you are having conversations with Karen etc because you are repeating the same exact BS line Karen tried to use about there being two representatives, the term representative within the congress means votes for the country, all the parties involved in this knew full well what the US proposal meant within the contingency clause about two representatives in congress, go ask everybody else present if you like, will their first hand account of this be enough to out weight Karen’s Kool Aid? To your point if multiple individuals are allowed in the room during the meeting regardless of the fact that they cannot vote as you insinuated, then explain to me why it would be necessary to make a contingency in the US unification agreement to this effect? I mean if you are allowed to take a guest why would a contingency for allowing a guest have to be in the deal? I will tell you why because it did not mean a guest it meant a second vote, that is what the WAF/AAA wanted across the board because none of them wanted to lose their positions of power with the merger, think before you say these things Chris.

One of the items that the Roy WAF would not accept from Karen’s proposal nor would they allow in the newly formulated proposal was this attempt by the AAA/WAF to have two voting representatives in congress, in order to accommodate the countries with two federations, you see they wanted that because otherwise the AAA would never have a voice in the WAF, do you really think Karen would knowingly accept that?

Karen discussed with me her shocked position that the US agreement was null via email after I had returned from the WAF and the subject was discussed on the AAA message board. No the US did not renege on the deal, the contingency was in place all parties knew full well what it meant and she was just pandering to her followers attempting to gain favor at the expense of the USA group. Go ask those present in the meeting what that contingency meant.

The “one body” IOC statement I never brought up, what I brought up was the claim by Karen that they changed their name to A Armsport A because the IOC told them to, and the fact that O’Leary still does own the original company called the A Armwrestling A, do an incorporation search for yourself Chris. I do not care that they did this as I said is perfectly fine, trying to make people believe is was anything more than a business deal is silly, but fine.

What you should well know is that when you send in a deposit for an event, the person you sent the money to, sends you a receipt, hence how RJ’s son had the receipt.

I have never said word one to Frank in any capacity I have nothing to say either positive or negative about him, though I do apologize to him for his having to read all of these conversations about his wife I know that cannot be easy, but when someone intentionally puts themselves into this kind of public position they unfortunately get to have their every move scrutinized.

OK Chris maybe I will start with the story you told me about you getting screwed over in Florida, since you are so eager to make everything public.

I am not sure how the state of the former Das WAF is speculation, I am not sure the limitations that are in front of the AAA’s prosperity are speculative, tell me please oh wise one if the WAF’s unify for Japan how does the AAA get in?

Karen made these issues personal and first hand to me when her actions regarding CB allowed CB to attack me and deceive me, Karen made the unification issues personal to me when she stood right in front of me and lied to me. I have put the truth out there and now it is up to you to PROVE me wrong, your childish yes I did no you didn’t approach to this is demeaning to everyone that cares about the future of this sport. Stop pretending that what I have said is not first hand frankly it just makes you look bad. Quit doing only enough research to try and find the item you can twist into your view, get a hold of the WAF officers and ask questions the deal was I give you details from events I was involved in first hand and you would prove me wrong, so do you homework, and go looking for the real truth instead of spewing more of the AAA propaganda BS.

If you cannot respond with proof to the contrary then let’s just drop this because no one wants to endure more of this nonsense if it is just going to continue like this, if you have anything tangible please send it along.

[Chris Coletti]

Damn Simon! Keep it down to a little smaller than the Bible next time! Ok I have to print and read this over dinner. I will get back to you later on. You don't need to try and impress everyone with every post. I for one know for sure that you sit in front of your computer with a Dictionary...and Thesaurus and Leonard on two way.

If you could go more into what happened to you and not everyone else (Even the line about me is heresay) I don't want to hear RJ and WAF and Leonard and my cousin on my brothers side. Try to make your point in less than 1000 words. I bet you have never done that in your life.
Question have you ever called Karen and addressed any of this? Ever?
I will concede that Heather was wrong. Charlie Brown was regrettable. I like Harold a ton and I heard the same from him but he is a big boy and can handle his problem. Heather made a mistake...not Karen. For you to blame her aligns you with the same crap you see or have seen in the last election.
Everything is Bush's fault...The Dem's try to make you believe that your lot in life is because of what W has done for te last 4 years not what you may have done for your whole life.

The argument I put forward is addressable...look it up.

After I get through your marathon that you call a post I will get back to you. Hey does it come in a soft cover or maybe "Post on tape" I'll check at Barnes and Noble and let you know.

[Chris Coletti]

Leonard what are you talking about? What meetings?

[James]

"Damn Simon! Keep it down to a little smaller than the Bible next time! Ok I have to print and read this over dinner. I will get back to you later on."

Yeah, look at Coletti's picture. You couldn't tell he was getting oiled up to do a bachelorette party tonight. He doesn't have time to read all this. ;D

[Chris Coletti]

James,
It's all about Pilates!!!

[James]

I'm more of a 30-minute-express/8-minute-abs guy myself.

Though recently they have been looking more like 14 second abs, as I have taken a liking for food.

[Chris Coletti]

Ok Simon,
here it is. Available on tape at your local book stores,


I can say you did NOT have first hand involvement in the AAA using “questionable propaganda and control techniques”. These are your exact words and you have not given me one single thing to back them up. Before you do anything else, name the control techniques. You have failed to name one control technique in any of your posts.

1. I am on the AAA board on a daily basis. Not once has Karen ever posted she knew who everybody was. Now you want to say you and many people saw it. Who are these many people Simon since I’m telling you I never saw it and I’m on there daily. It would be impossible for me not to have seen it. I have done exactly what you asked, I phoned Karen and asked her specifically about this tape Dave Devoto has.
First let me ask this – how do you know what is on the tape? How did you know Dave Devoto has a tape?

Now, what I have been told by Karen is she states in the meeting she knows who specific posters on the board are and ousts Leonard as an anonymous poster. You are quick to accuse aren’t you. Karen probably lied to me? You are as closed minded as they come.
2.
a. Karen may have said those words to you, I did not claim otherwise. I said funny she never said those words to any of us immediately following her coming from Canada. Doesn’t that seem strange to you? But, so what if she did? It was a woman that brought the proposal for the 2 world groups to merge wasn’t it? So, at least the statement if said was the truth.
b. What WAF officers told you her proposal wasn’t voted on? I’ll be more than happy to ask not only if her proposal was voted on but if they spoke to you and told you it wasn’t just as soon as you give me a list of what officers were in the room and told you this. You are making this plural so there is more than one, right?
3. These same WAF officers told you they knew she didn’t have any authority to negotiate? Then why did they meet with her? And, why when she was in Florida did she have letters signed from the Das WAF saying she did? She specifically showed us at the party the letter from the President, so explain yourself. Who told you this crap?
4. Show me in the Roy WAF Constitution where it defines the term “representative”. Show me where it says it means “votes”. How can you say what “all the parties involved knew”? By your own admission you have never spoken with Frank so how can you make that statement? I have spoken with Frank and with Karen so I can make statements. Read the signed agreement between AAA & USA , it’s online. Nowhere does it state that anything is contingent upon 2 representatives. It say if both WAF’s agree to merge then a rep from AAA and a rep from USA will attend the WAF meeting. Read the minutes from Roy WAF Congress meetings before you attempt to discredit what I’ve said. 2 representatives and more sit in their Congress meetings and one is not just an observer. You have Rep #1 making a motion on a topic then later in another discussion you have Rep #2 seconding a motion. You have Rep #1 speaking on topic C and then Rep #2 speaking on topic G. Multiple reps carrying out business in a meeting. These people are not guests. They are acting on behalf of their countries. Go do the research and read the minutes. Oh plus the fact, it’s on the tape from the Vegas meeting too. The subject comes up about multiple representatives in the Roy WAF Congress, Denise tries to deny it, and Devoto says yes you’re right it does happen! (And just so you’ll know, Frank NOT Karen has agreed to make me a copy of the tape) The agreement between AAA & USA says what it says Simon. You can’t try to change it by saying “it meant this that and the other”. I don’t give a damn what you may think it meant, I can only go on exactly what it says. How do you know what the AAA or Das WAF wanted? Assumptions again. But, answer this. WHO was the first one in the Vegas meeting to ask about voting? Who? Answer that and you will know who exactly is worried about power and who isn’t. And remember I’m getting a copy of the tape.
5. The Roy WAF wouldn’t accept 2 voting reps? You’re telling me that the request for 2 voting reps was in the Das WAF proposal? What is with all the question of what Karen would accept? Do you have any clue that Frank is the President of the AAA not Karen?
6. “the claim by Karen that they changed their name to A Armsport A because the IOC told them to” You’re trying to say that the IOC did not make any recommendations? Frank Bean says the IOC made the recommendation that they not use the arm “wrestling” term since wrestling is a recognized sport. For this reason many of the countries changed their names from armwrestling to armsport not just the AAA. But you say this didn’t happen so what first hand experience did you have regarding this? And how did Karen make that claim? From what’s on the AAA website? I guess then Frank has to be making the same claim too so why haven’t you included him?
7. Again I’m going to say what transpired between O’Leary and the Beans is none of mine or your business but Frank Bean states Bob O’Leary gave them the American Armwrestling Association. Simon you should know this since you were in Bakersfield, California at the AAA Nationals. Bob O’Leary announced it on stage!
8. You’re telling me that when you send in a deposit for an event the person you send the money to sends you a receipt. BS, I sent in my deposit for the Show of Strength. Guess what? No receipt was sent to me or to anyone else. My check was my receipt I guarantee you RJ’s son had nothing! So, who’s lying to who here.
9 Tell me too how Karen has intentionally put herself in a public position and Frank hasn’t?
10. Tell me this if the WAF’s unify for Japan how does the AAA NOT get in? If they unify then everybody gets in don’t they? Or how can you guarantee the USA will get in and the AAA won’t?
I’m not pretending anything here. You have not answered your own allegations. You stated the AAA has used questionable propaganda and control techniques. I asked you to give me exact instances that you had first had experience with. Not the he said, she said, or my aunt’s daughters boyfriend told me. Look at this Simon. If Karen made it personal with you by allowing Charlie Brown/Heather to attack you, then Kurt has made it personal with Karen by allowing Travis Bagent to attack her. So we should all be against Kurt then right? I have yet to see where Karen lied to you about unification. Pardon my ignorance here but I don’t see it.

One more thing...I did have a problem with the FL States being moved and after some thought and some brooding I called Karen and we hashed it out. It got pretty heated but we solved it and guess what...No wrath...I woke up in the morning and there was no horses head laying next to me and I actually got a better deal out of it in the end. This is where you fail. If you would stop hiding behind your keyboard and approach someone with your concerns (Face to face) you might get something solved.

I will tell you this when I had a problem with James R we met it head on. I didn't call 10 of his friends and talk crap about him or spread gossip. When I have a problem with you I promise you will get a call..
This is one of the things that seperates me from you and one of the things I take pride in.

[James]

Chris, I think we both want to keep this fun between you and I. But I can back up what Simon said about Karen claiming she knew everyone who posted on the board. She told me on the phone last year that after the anons she wanted removed were kicked off, she would then know who everyone on the board was. She said anyone she didn't know would have to reregister.

As for the Charlie Brown thing. Look, I have no doubt in my mind Karen knew who that was. Heck James Battles did, and this is a man that exchanged a few friendly emails with me while his wife was anonymously talking crap about me on the board.

NO LOVE THERE...

But I got love for ya Chris. And Lord knows if I ever need a mercenary or perhaps a Chip N' Dale, you're the first guy I'd call.

[gambit]

Simon, your research is amazing, and that you care to find the answers to a lot of people's concerns.

Chris, I can understand your need to believe AAA. It is a lot easier to defend what you feel strong about than to see someone else's side; I did it for the longest.
Chris, I am not trying to be an ass, but since you are on the other board daily, could you please tell me, if you or anyone else knows who WAnderson or Bob Manning is?

I have many viewpoints on this matter, (for whatever that's worth to some) but not the time to elaborate. I will touch back on it soon.

[Chris Coletti]

Allen,

I Think his research is simply by Two Way Radio
There is nothing to believe from the AAA. They are not claiming anything. I am choosing to look for proof of accusations and rumors being leveled on them.

I have no idea who the two posters are in question.

Hey dude are you going to be in Lake Arthur this weekend. I hope to see you there. I am arriving Friday and leaving Sunday. Call me on my cell.

[Chris Coletti]

Allen,

Check with Karen but I think Manning is a puller from Ohio. Why?

[Chris Coletti]

Allen: "I have many viewpoints on this matter, (for whatever that's worth to some) but not the time to elaborate. I will touch back on it soon."

PLEASE NO!!!!!

This is exactly what we are trying to avoid!
There are too many viewpoints already!
Instead of calling them viewpoints let's call them what they really are.
Slander.

With all due respect Allen let's try to stick to the facts.

[Olin Lucas]

Simon said:

I will do this one quick first, RJ's daughter’s boyfriend was with him at that event, his son was at home as I was told.

I do recall that story about you and your paperwork now that you mention it, I really think it is tragic that it was allowed to happen to anyone, why would you not want top pullers to be at an event like that? Very odd. Fortunately I got a reminder about my 2005 Arnold paperwork when the deadline was running near.

This is the last I will talk about this subject:

Simon,

Why in the hell aren't you raising hell about me not being able to compete in the Arnold? If you were a true friend of mine in armwrestling then you should be raising the same questions for me. But you know what? YOU AREN'T Here is my question for you since you continue to make arguments with no solid proof. Me being the type of person that I am would have came home, taken my information regarding the SOS, cancelled check, etc., and freakin scanned it. I would have then placed it on the internet to make Mr. Frank and Mrs. Karen look like the biggest asses I could. My point would have been proven once and for all. Then people like you would have been silenced forever. Instead R.J. is making you look like a moron by taking up for him. Think about it Simon.

As far as the reminder for the Arnold:

1) Does you phone company give you a reminder about your late phone bill?
2) Does your electrical company give you a reminder about your late electricity bill?
3) Does your credit card company give you a reminder about your late credit card bill?

The answer to all of the above is NO. You are penalized for all of the above if not completely shut off. Those are more detrimental to life than not being able to compete at a stupid armwrestling tournament. We are supposedly all adults accountable for our actions. When will you start taking account for yours?

[simon]

I have not spoken to Leonard in weeks nor anyone else about this subject this is all me and my desire to know the truth, I don’t need to be coached by anyone, unlike you who is getting all of your info from the Beans, not only did you indicate you had spoken to Frank but you can tell these attempts at a defense are not your own because you really do not understand the items in the grand scheme of things subsequently when you try to string them together you just make yourself and them look stupid. I have done my research because I want to know the truth now go do yours for the same reason. I will admit I do use a thesaurus, of course only to change the words I would typically type to ones I think you will understand.

I tell you what Chris if you want the truth do what I would do go ask people that were present or in the know, those that were in attendance at the LV meeting knew the meeting was taped, Dave himself told me he has the tape where Karen claimed she knew everyone on the board, Karen posted it on the AAA message board, now James has confirmed it, do you want to know the truth or are you just more interested in defending the AAA?

Leonard has confirmed what I said happened in Ottawa in the congress did happen. So you are wrong.
Beyond everything else James has confirmed that Karen admitted she knew whom everyone was. So you are wrong again.
You cannot dispute what Karen said to me in Ottawa, so really how much more is there to discuss, you failed.

Now you are on here flat out lying about something you know I know better than, but we will get back to that at the end.

Karen claimed she knew everyone on the board, then she allowed Heather to be on there with this alias and mistreat people plain and simple, that makes Karen culpable, taking any other position is like the pimp claiming that he has girls that he lets go with men but he does not know what they are doing. You are a joke Chris to call me close minded, these are facts corroborated by others yet you still refuse to admit to them.

Karen claimed to me that HER proposal for unification was passed, that is a lie, all she really did was show up with a proposal that no one would agree to then take the new proposal back to the Das WAF. Don’t let me lead you around do some work Chris, you know who the WAF officers are, just go ask them that way you can be sure of whether or not what I am saying is true, regardless of the fact that Leonard who was there just told you that it was, obviously this is not enough to ward off the AAA spell.

Karen showed up there with a note from Frank to speak on his behalf, and Das rightfully denounced this in his statement go read it for yourself.
I already told you why they met with her, because the hoped she could take back with her a reasonable unification proposal that the Das WAF may ratify, plus they knew if they did not meet with her, the AAA/WAF would accuse them of not wanting unification, by doing what they did no one could accuse them of not wanting unification, and there was an outside chance the Das WAF would agree with proposal, now this is the second time I spelled that out for you what is so hard to fathom about this?

This part is just too stupid and too much nonsense to address and you again completely ignored the obvious points I made to you, ask the people present when you ask them about everything else that transpired within that congress, not to allow two representatives in the congress as it applies to this issue was a factor and Leonard has again confirmed that first hand. I don’t know who was the first to ask about voting and I am not sure what your point is, this has nothing to do with the issues we are discussing, again you are just trying to steer away from the truth. By the same token how do you know that it only meant as taking a guest into congress, what Karen told you, that is a laugh, there are more people that were present that will tell you to the contrary, go find the truth if you really want to know.

Frank may be the current president yippee for him I don’t really care, I have never spoken to Frank in any capacity that I know of and he has never lied to me.

I am saying that pursuant to Karen’s direct comments to me in Ottawa that the IOC did not directly tell them to change their name to the A Armsport A, please send me a copy of the seal stamped letter from the IOC and I will admit that I am wrong. Frank did not walk up to me Ottawa and confirm that the claims about the IOC were only a ploy to ply interest in cooperation Karen did, let them fight about it I do not care.

You are so dense, I don’t care what happened, I don’t care if he gave it to them or sold it to them or he still owns the whole thing, but they are two separate legal corporations that is fact, so the current AAA is only 4 years old and has nothing to do with the old AAA legally, you can’t fight this, it is public record, it does not matter what she puts on the her page or what he said in Bakersfield.

That was RJ’s claim, maybe he meant the cancelled check, maybe he meant the duplicate of the check, needless to say the man claims he was screwed over and you cannot prove to the contrary. Any reputable business that you send your money to should send you a receipt.

I don’t know why not Frank, nor do I care what is your point, Frank has never sent me an email, never replied to one of my posts, never lied to me, I have no reason to make comments about Frank. Since the Beans are obviously coaching you in this conversation, tell Frank to step up and say all of this himself, it is a pity the are sending you to do their bidding, and be eviscerated like this. I have not called or contacted another single person regarding this discussion since it started this is all me, tell your coach I am not hard to find if they want to talk to me directly.

Read Roy’s latest message, he says “the Americans will have their own problems to overcome”, this is between the AAA and the USA, we are talking about the WAF unification, look at what was drafted previously when they tried unification, did the AAA get in? Only because they made an agreement with the USA to be allowed to send their first place pullers along with the first place pullers of the USA group. Think about this Chris, lets just say the WAF’s unify and they go to Mr. Endo Japan worlds, now whose worlds is the Mr. Endo’s Japan worlds, it is the Roy WAF’s worlds, what group in the US is the only group affiliated with the Roy WAF? That’s right the USA group, so if the USA group and the AAA do not reach an agreement, what team gets to go to the Worlds? That’s right the USA group gets to go to the worlds, the AAA cannot go because they are not affiliated, unless of course they get the USA to allow it. Please enlighten me with how the Beans think they get to the Endo Japan worlds outside of the USA group?

Kurt did not allow anonymous posters, Kurt did not promise to control anyone or anything, your analogy is as lame as the rest of your arguments.

Your last paragraph what a load of horse $hit remember you and I have had several phone conversations including you whining to me about Travis’s actions, you went out on the board asking people why we were accepting his actions, you did not go straight to Travis only, I hope that was not the only thing you take pride in because I tell you what you don’t have that. As I have said previously I have sent Karen emails about my concerns on subjects and she refuses to respond.

You have come on here failed to disprove my facts, which have continued to get substantiated, you have attempted to spin doctor this into more of the usual propaganda nonsense devoid of anything tangible, all the while crying for only the facts, where are your facts, where is your witnesses to counter my position, you have nothing. Now the grand finally you are out here flat lying claiming that you had a minor problem with the FL event you brooded worked it out and now it is over. Chris if you are going to try and play both sides of the fence you are going to have to better job remembering who you said what to. Since you are so interested in the facts and in getting my “alleged” stories about peoples problems with the AAA out in the open, you won’t mind if we start with what you told me on two separate occasions, you did not ask me to keep this is a secret, not to mention I can no longer stomach your hypocrisy, let us refer to my notes.

During the process where you were pleading with the world to admonish Travis for his attacks on Karen, the subject of the armwrestling union came about and you called me, at that time we again discussed you getting screwed over by the AAA, your comment was, “I put a lot of work into that event and it was taken from me, I learned my lesson and I will never do that with them again” further you stated “if Karen really took Travis’s money and did not send out his flyers, he should just learn his lesson and not do business with her” “rather than coming on this board and attacking her like this” “ it is bad for all of us”. This was not very long ago that you said this Chris, that does not sound like someone that resolved their issues with the AAA to me. Maybe I should go on further and post from my notes about our first phone conversation where you told me what you really think about the Beans, their positioning on the old unification attempt, and their anonymous posters, yeah let us do that. What do you think Chris?