J.Tanner
Silver Member
DENVER
Posts: 374
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Post by J.Tanner on Mar 24, 2008 20:22:17 GMT -5
GOOD TOPIC. Also I agree with Justin K. you should police yourself. Thats why im not pulling NOVICE anymore.I got two first RT. & two LT. Time to move on up for me.
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Post by Tommy Russell on Mar 24, 2008 20:40:08 GMT -5
I placed 2nd @ the nationals novice but never won a novice class and got the boot to open. At the time I had only been pulling about six months. It sucked at first because it's like starting all over again. I used to go to with intentions on winning the class, now I just try to win a match The only thing I learn now at a tournament is how far I got to go to reach the top. Anybody got a ladder!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Steve Inzalaco on Mar 24, 2008 20:46:25 GMT -5
I will "Police myself" and place myself under arrest, and pull Pro's only from now on. I suppose I'll save lots of energy, not pulling all the other categories in the same tournament.
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Post by jonathanvazquez on Mar 24, 2008 21:19:27 GMT -5
As a Novice puller right now, I think it is ridiculous to pull Novice if you have been pulling for 7+ years, step up and go pro man. If you are even at the same table, seriously, in a tourney with John Brzenk then you have no business pulling any novice classes. If a novice wants to step up to a pro class thats one thing, but you should not step down. I AGREE 100%. I have been to a few tournaments and seen guys who have benn pullin for 3+ years enter novice. CRAP! as soon as I win a novice class I will at least Go AM. and so on.
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Mar 24, 2008 21:34:46 GMT -5
As a Novice puller right now, I think it is ridiculous to pull Novice if you have been pulling for 7+ years, step up and go pro man. If you are even at the same table, seriously, in a tourney with John Brzenk then you have no business pulling any novice classes. If a novice wants to step up to a pro class thats one thing, but you should not step down. I AGREE 100%. I have been to a few tournaments and seen guys who have benn pullin for 3+ years enter novice. CRAP! as soon as I win a novice class I will at least Go AM. and so on. There are more than a few that do that!!! unless you just plain suck!!!! and love the sport.......... I won't name names since I already outed a few guys a while back (they know who they are, BS). Keep up the good work guys, you will only get better and remember to listen to guys that are better than you, it helps a lot!!!
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Post by Tim Lewis on Mar 24, 2008 21:37:48 GMT -5
Amateur is a usarmwrestling class. Northeast tournaments and AAA very very rarely offer such a class.
I agree that depending on the relationship between a TD and a competitor that rules bend a lot regarding novice eligibility and even weight class, but to say that an low grade open puller doesn't beneift anything from pulling novice I don't agree. Some people are better at studying videos and "seeing" their mistakes than others. Some people are better at individual training than others. I don't mean motivation here, I mean creativty of workouts.
I've seen true novices enter open classes before, for the "challenge" some of them won a match or two others didn't. Many weren't ready for it. I've seen certain open pullers enter only novice at major events due to the increased level of competition.
It all comes down to the goal of the competitor: No one wants 5+ novice state championships. But at the same time it is good to have 2 or 3 wins under your belt before you committ yourself solely to open.
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Post by Guy Windover on Mar 25, 2008 5:52:21 GMT -5
I have seen this scenario played out so many times. I started pulling again 5 months ago after a 2 year stint 15 years ago. Never touched a table again until 5 months ago. My first tourney would probably be considered open with national champs. It was interesting and I actually won a match. I will probably continue to pull amateur for this year and then move up in weight class or pull open/pro, depending on my getting better or not. Pulling open too soon may not give your arms and tendons the time to mature and be ready for the extreme hitting and such you will get in open pro. I have watched pro's pulling an amateur slowly and "taking it easy on the new guy". This is sportsman at its finest. I have also seen the professional amateur who wins 1st every time but "won't take the money cause he wants to keep his amateur status". Peer policing is needed in this situation. If the pro's stepped up to this guy and said it was time to pull up I am sure it would happen, instead of the whispered, he really should pull up. Amateurs are the future of the sport, and distinctions are tuff, cause people improve at different rates, but generally a nudge from a respected pro can bring about the change. JMO
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 8:36:12 GMT -5
I don't think a novice/amateur puller learns hardly anything from getting flashed by a low-grade pro puller. However, I think that a motivated, low-grade open puller who studies videos and trains hard can still learn a lot from getting owned by an elite armwrestler. You've made a good point, Jess. One of the issues for me in non-novice classes is whether I get flashed or not. I feel that if I get flashed by a "top-notch" puller, then I walk away having learned virtually nothing, except to maybe try to start faster. However, I've also had matches against guys that have way out-classed me in opens, e.g., Emlyn Williams, Chris Chandler, who did not flash me even though they could have, easily. They brought me down slowly. With Emlyn in particular, he usually gives me a chance to pull different ways during a tournament match. I DO learn a lot from those matches. So, for me it comes down to the actual time on the table with a national caliber puller. I can learn if I have several seconds (at least) with them, and they don't pursue the ego trip gained by burying a part-time amateur puller.
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Ted Waga
Full Member
Pennsylvania
Posts: 42
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Post by Ted Waga on Mar 25, 2008 13:19:11 GMT -5
In my opinion, and the way it has been explained to me, there is a huge difference between amateur and novice. Novice is for beginners. Amateur is someone who has not accepted prize money or its equivalent. I've seen some really good pullers compete as an amateur in the last several years: Barbosa, Phipps, McClary, Constantino, Wabuda, Partington also all of the Armenian guys that train with Vagzden. Thanks Steve. This goes the same for many sports. It does not matter how good you are. As long as you have not accepted money as a prize you can remain an amateur. I have read this entire thread and it seems that everyone here is on the same page. Once you win a couple novice classes it is time to move up. We are all here for the competition. Where is the competition in an open class puller beating up on novices??? I tell ya what, if I get that good, and I do plan to, I'm moving up and taking the money!!! ;D
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Ted Waga
Full Member
Pennsylvania
Posts: 42
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Post by Ted Waga on Mar 25, 2008 13:33:28 GMT -5
yeah i screwed it up but figured it out and fixed it...thanks
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Mar 25, 2008 13:33:47 GMT -5
OK...I deleted, thanks.
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Ted Waga
Full Member
Pennsylvania
Posts: 42
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Post by Ted Waga on Mar 25, 2008 13:34:50 GMT -5
No Problem
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Post by STEVE PHIPPS on Mar 25, 2008 16:25:23 GMT -5
Interesting thread.
I haven't seen anything posted about the Olympics and amateur status....so I'll throw in my two cents.
When I started armwrestling no novice/beginner or pro classes were offered it was all amateur armwrestling....everyone in the same class. As the sport begain to grow a few money tournaments were offered from time to time. The question for most of us at that time was...will armwrestling get into the Olympics and if I accept money will I be able to compete. The general feeling was...that if you accepted money you would NOT be able to compete...based on the rules at that time..with amateur track and field etc. So many of us elected to keep our amateur status and not accept money.
I think the rules have changed for the Olympics over the last few years..if I'm not mistaken. If armwrestling ever does get into the Olympics...my feeling is that it won't matter if you have accepted money or not.
I agree that if you win a couple novice/beginner tournaments it's time to move up to amateur...but again the lines are gray because of the different organizations offering different classes as stated earlier in a post . AAA has novice & open....Leonard has novice/beginner, amateur and pro open.
I've never armwrestled novice at AAA ....ever but I armwrestled a lot of amateur and pro open at Leonards tournaments until a few years ago. I realized armwrestling was most likely not going to make it to the olympics and begin to accept money...at that time I stopped armwrestling amateur.
Not sure I've cleared anything up...maybe just made the water a little more muddy.
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Post by chrislydman on Mar 25, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
Steve, you're right on. The Olympics have changed.
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Mar 25, 2008 17:14:31 GMT -5
Steve,
I agree with you, and did mention the olympics in an earlier post.
Hope all is well with you.
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