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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 8, 2009 21:39:12 GMT -5
Yes, these are the best classes and will draw the best and the most people. What draws the best is the large payout for the top 3 guys. What draws the most is paying down to 6th. Basically when doing 3 classes you need a Light, Middle and Heavy. It would be nice to have another $10,000-$20,000 more to do more classes but he does not. Gary has never really wanted the biggest event he wants the best event with all the best pullers showing. He truly wants to have the absolute Elite to be there.........A work in progress.
Now back to the weight classes. Were to draw the line with 3 classes. Once you get over 200 pounds there really is not an incredible difference in ability at the Elite level. Sorry but true. So trying to stay with WAF classes, 198 is the obvious choice. Now were to split the lighter guys. If you go 154 then its a 44 pound jump and lets face it the Elite 154 guys can easily hang with the 165 guys. Now if you are a 187 pound puller, you probably diet to make that weight, so dont diet and your perfect in the 198. I will admit that the 176 puller is at a slight disadvantage but I will say again, the Elite 176 pull can hang with the 198 especially when they don't diet either and come in weighing 187 anyway. So they are only giving up 10 pounds. And 10 pounds will not make much difference in the Elite guys.
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 8, 2009 21:52:16 GMT -5
Aaron,
I just read your analogy on the other thread. It looks as if we both basically have the same thought process just starting at slightly different weight classes.
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Post by Anthony Snook on Aug 8, 2009 22:08:39 GMT -5
What about the not so "elite" 76 guys that walk around at about 180 and in no way shape or form can "hang" with the not so elite 98 guys, not to mention the "elite", and without the risk of death can't make 65? I guess the ROTN isn't for us, or we'll just have to strive to get to the elite level......that make take some time  |
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Post by Aaron Blevins on Aug 8, 2009 22:37:51 GMT -5
It comes down to HOW MANY of those inbetween..ers.. ARE ELITE. World level, Babayev, Zoelev can compete with our 98s.
Snook, for instance, Outstanding puller, but where does he fit in. Cant make 65s, so throw him to 98s, even he admits that is too much....Snook -vs- Fisher, Rhodes, Klemba, Harris, Simon B., Dye, Kindt etc...makes sense.... and statures fit as a smaller man.
NOT... Snook -vs- Rakers, Chandler, Silvers, Larson, Clark and Wolfe.....at this point in Snooks career, thats a mismatch and Snook's not the only one, there are ALOT of others out there that can compete at 76 and not make 65s. Everyone of the 54, 65 top guys Vasgen, Miller, Dye, Kindt etc.....could possibly be picked and not laughed at when picked to win a 76 class. I can make all the same points going to the 200 class and on. Remember also, that when Snook says he can't make 65s....why, because most guys under 180 lbs have ALOT LESS to lose than a heavier guy.
Sorry Snook, i threw you out there alot, my bad man, you were a good example.
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 8, 2009 23:19:19 GMT -5
Truth is...you are right. Some can't cut it. This is the Ruler of the Nation. Not the "Lets try to please everyone who is not the best"
I mean no disrespect but the reality is if you dont feel you can get top six amongst the best, then you probably don't belong. This event is for those who think they are the best of the best and want a shot to prove it and can be compensated for there efforts.
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Aug 8, 2009 23:28:05 GMT -5
What about the not so "elite" 76 guys that walk around at about 180 and in no way shape or form can "hang" with the not so elite 98 guys, not to mention the "elite", and without the risk of death can't make 65? I guess the ROTN isn't for us, or we'll just have to strive to get to the elite level......that make take some time I am with you Snook!!! I guess I'll try to get better and wait for the results...............187 and not in the best shape.......... |
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Post by Gary Roberts on Aug 9, 2009 3:53:52 GMT -5
seriously...the weight classes give me fits and I am not a 100% sure of anything. but going with my gut and I really like the 65 and 98 class..it is the upper classes that screw it up but..ideally if I were to start over I would maybe start with a 220 but then I would end up having 4 or five classes and the payout sucks. I don't want just another average payout event. in the end I would love to have it as it is 3500 per class. if I went 54/76/98/220/+
that would be 17,500 just for the right hand...which is not in the budget.
and even if we had those weight classes there are still going to be guys in the 220 class that I want to see pull somebody in the heavies and same for 54/76 and 98/220
again...I know the class isn't perfect but I am putting more importance on the money per class so hence less classes and your examples above...somebody is going to be left out with any of the options.
back in petaluma there was similar weight classes I believe. somebody correct me if I am wrong but they were very close to 65/98 and heavy and had 50 to 75 guys per class single elimination back in the day. That was a tough event and it has gone down in history as something special.
if you won it...you were bad ass.
It would be a dream of mine to have something like that again and unfortunately it won't draw the max competitors.
I am thinking of Mike Selearis, a guy who had no fear in pulling heavier classes. He would jump in any weight class no matter what and go after it. This is an ROTN attitude I seek.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Aug 9, 2009 4:01:11 GMT -5
you can also look at it another way who are your list of champions going to be in any of your weight class choices
who will champions be at
65/98/ heavies
80/215/+
160/185/215/+
54/76/98/220/ heavies
how different is the list and will there be anyone in those top three results that you think would give good match ups accross the weight class.
as an example somebody who diets down to make a 185 might be a natural 195 and someone in a 215 class who doesn't diet down at all and walks in 205 or 210.
those two guys may have a war if they were in the same class. it might be a great match. with the rotn weight classes as is. They will pull eachother and it might be an out come that I might not see othewise.
less classes is not going to be good for everyone...but it will be good for a wide varitety of matches which is what we are looking for. with the payout as is. the final four in all the classes should be top notch/ add a supermatch element and you have an opportunity for one damn exciting tournament.
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Post by Guy Lasorsa on Aug 9, 2009 8:41:30 GMT -5
Its difficult yes. No matter what 3 classes will draw complaints but i can see its harder topay to 6th with 4 classes
with just a little more $ perhaps, drop the first to $1000 and do 4 classes
i think these are good 160/185/215/+
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Post by Guy Lasorsa on Aug 9, 2009 10:22:53 GMT -5
About $3000 is whats needed to do 4 classes.
the guys who think they will win will still come for $1000 first $700 second , that frees up $1800 about and covers 1st and second for the 4th class.
Thats how you get closer to 4 classes which can cover more arms
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Post by Dustin Morgan on Aug 9, 2009 12:30:26 GMT -5
You don't have to be an "elite" puller to make 5th or 6th place...that's the point of only 3 classes...so the payout can reach out so far.....to give the guys who don't quite fit in the weight class a good chance of still winning some money. Hell i'm no where near "elite" but I still made 5th last year lefty but it only paid to 4th..  (well I woulda had to have a pull off with whoever else got knocked out that round to determine 5th and 6th, but either way I woulda made money) I think the good 76 guys are def good enough to sneak into 4th-6th place in the 98's just like the good 215-220 guys can in the heavies. |
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Post by Guy Lasorsa on Aug 9, 2009 13:05:16 GMT -5
^^^ I still say 4 classes is best, draw down the first and second a little and add $3000 and maje a lot more people happy, after all the people need to be happy. The people capable of first and second wouldnt be happy with $1000 and $700 , they should be
About $3000 is whats needed to do 4 classes.
the guys who think they will win will still come for $1000 first $700 second , that frees up $1800 about and covers 1st and second for the 4th class.
Thats how you get closer to 4 classes which can cover more arms
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 9, 2009 13:18:48 GMT -5
Don Fritsche already puts out $20,000 plus dollars with absolutely NO return and now you want him to pull another $3000.00 out of his pocket.
Here is an idea. Everyone that wants more classes and more money. Donate it to Gary and the ROTN and I am sure Gary would do it.
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Post by David Owens on Aug 9, 2009 13:22:57 GMT -5
seriously...the weight classes give me fits and I am not a 100% sure of anything. but going with my gut and I really like the 65 and 98 class... I agree some 176 guys can make 165 and all 154's ,the heavier 176 guys should be able to pull 198 with the smaller 220 guys I can see how this gives the max payout for 3 classes IMO I like the USAA classes 154,176,198,242,243+ but I understand the concept |
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Post by Guy Lasorsa on Aug 9, 2009 13:46:51 GMT -5
Don Fritsche already puts out $20,000 plus dollars with absolutely NO return and now you want him to pull another $3000.00 out of his pocket. Here is an idea. Everyone that wants more classes and more money. Donate it to Gary and the ROTN and I am sure Gary would do it. I have no idea on how the sponsors worked. Just a thought would be nice |
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(well I woulda had to have a pull off with whoever else got knocked out that round to determine 5th and 6th, but either way I woulda made money)
