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Post by Michael Wells on Jul 28, 2010 11:47:48 GMT -5
Tried to tell ya, iPhone bro. Ok, back to Religion Killing. Round umpteen
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Jul 28, 2010 12:20:50 GMT -5
It says in the Bible Dixon that "no man comes to the father except through me" that was what Christ said or too that effect. please tell the refferrence where in BIBLE. [YOU know i am not good in BIBLE KNOWLEDGE.] John Chapter14 verse 1-7 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my fathers house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; there where I am. there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, an the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, an the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: an from henceforth ye know him, an have seen him.
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 28, 2010 13:45:32 GMT -5
Hitler was a roman catholic.
Stalin, Mao and others may happened to be atheist but they did not do their deeds in name of atheism.
They were kind of religious in a sense that their belief system which was idealistic, utopian, in an odd kind of way they really believed the end justified the means and that is the wholemark of a Fanatic who will kill, murder, prison in the sake of a belief system. I dont think any atheist has ever done some thing like that for the sake of atheism.
There is a distinction between somebody doing somthg in the name of religion and somebody doing smthg who happens to have a religion.
Hitler was a roman catholic like I said and it would do unjustice to say that he did all the bad things because he was a catholic. Similarly Stalin was an atheist but he did not do the things he has done in the name of atheism.
I can tell you many examples where people were motivated by religion and did many bad things. I will challange anybody to find a single case somebody did something bad by being motivated specifically by atheism. They may happen to be atheist and as I explained above that is different.
I hope this clears what I think about the classic hitler example.Hitler may have been raised Catholic, but when he was in power, he dabbled in the occult. He was known to be a Satanist. So were his top men. As soon as Hitler publicly went against Catholic teachings, he excommunicated himself. He was as far from being a Roman Catholic as you could possibly be! When Hitler was in power, Albert Einstein began to take an interest in the Catholic Church because priests and Bishops were dying side by side with the Jews, willingly, in concentration camps. Catholics were the only people speaking out against the Nazis in Germany without fear for their lives. Einstein knew there was something there. Tragically Einstein died before he was able to convert to Catholism...very sad especially in light of some unkind observations he previously had regarding Christianity. You are right about Stalin not being an atheist though. He died shaking his fists at the heavens. He died as an enemy of God. All people, at some point or another, will get a chance to know God in a personal way. I have to wonder....when Dawkins has that epiphany, will he humble himself to the living God, or will he die like Stalin, an enemy of God, shaking his fists at the heavens. He's got a long road ahead of him. When Dawkins ends up going insane, or when he begins receiving treatment for psychosis, I wonder if his handlers will be able to keep the secret. Keep your eyes peeled. I hope it's not too late for the people that man suckered. i've read the same thing about Hitler being involved in occultic type things and that he was also taking drugs that had some offect on him When i look at Hitler he just reflects Satan the devil who he was possessed by-------i know most of you dont like to hear that/believe this but that is one of Satans highest priorities--------destroy the Jews because that is where God put his name/word In Revelation it says that when the Dragon seen that he was cast to the earth he went to make war with the woman who brought forth the man child--------the woman is Israel All you have to do is look ---------and you can see how the Jews/Israel always have enemies on every side------this is a reflection of satans attempt to destroy Israel
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Post by dixonglory on Jul 29, 2010 4:12:42 GMT -5
HI Ryan,
i am not stubborn any more. i have lot of emotional attachment to BIBLE so that i am not able to desect its words in a critics point of view.
but if u dont mind i would like to understand u more... please answer me if u dont mind 1. what will u do if u read an article abusing JESUS very badly?
2. what will u do if u see[inside USA] a person who caused [informed police] arrest of a christian missionary person involved in conversion programmes in a middle east territory [where christianinty is banned by law].let us say the missionary was hanged by the court of law.
3. let us say u are in india on a vacation trip . and a war started between pakistan and india. and in the road u happens to face the pakistan troop asking you to show the way to the nearest famous christian church . if u dont show the church they said they will kill u. it was an afternoon and u knew there will be no human being at the church. u know that they are planing to destroy that church.what will you do?
please answer sincerely to these question.since u said in ur one post ...that JESUS suffered and died only because he knew he is going to be resurrected. and if no resurrection why should he suffer all these? these area is not familiar for me[ a christ who will not allow to crucify him if he was not going to be resurrected....that is not the christ i have in mind] correct me if i am not . this a debate and nothing personal....
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 29, 2010 10:05:42 GMT -5
You ask very powerful questions, Dixon. I know you addressed these questions to Ryan but I would like to answer as well. If you only want Ryan's answers then please disregard my post and accept my apologies for butting in. 1. what will u do if u read an article abusing JESUS very badly? In the US, almost every article in newspapers or on TV abuses Jesus very badly. Society at large holds faith in contempt and Christianity even more so. You cannot get angry. The world does not know Christ because they are lost. Pray for them. That is our only recourse. Jesus told his disciples that they would be hated for his sake. He says we will be persecuted, murdered, and suffer much for following Him. As Christians that is our sacrifice to make. 2. what will u do if u see[inside USA] a person who caused [informed police] arrest of a christian missionary person involved in conversion programmes in a middle east territory [where christianinty is banned by law].let us say the missionary was hanged by the court of law. America was founded because of this. America's first colonies were founded by people who left their native lands in search of religious freedom. In places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, (formerly the USSR) etc where Christianity is outlawed- such things happen all the time. It is tragic, but that is why it is important to keep up the efforts to bring Christ to people who suffer. The missionaries who go to these places know what will happen to them if caught. They are martyrs, just as the early apostles were martyred for spreading the word of Christ. 3. let us say u are in india on a vacation trip . and a war started between pakistan and india. and in the road u happens to face the pakistan troop asking you to show the way to the nearest famous christian church . if u dont show the church they said they will kill u. it was an afternoon and u knew there will be no human being at the church. u know that they are planing to destroy that church.what will you do? This is tragic because it is very real. First, let them burn the church. It is only a building. God does not live in a building, He lives in us. If people are there, that is another story. But Christ never told us we are to give our lives for property. We are to give our lives rather than to disavow Christ. We are to die rather than to deny the Lord. Jesus told the Pharisees to tear down the temple and he would build it again in three days. He was saying that our temple is Christ. He rose from the dead after three days. The temple made of stone is not the home of God. Christ is in us and we are in Him. Dixon, if I am understanding you correctly, you are really asking how open we should be in proclaiming Christ when the penalty for doing so is heavy or could lead to our death or the death of others. If I am wrong in my assumption then I apologize, but that's where I think you are going with this. Christianity is a personal faith. It is not, and never was meant to be, a monolithic religion. Salvation is between the person and God. Jesus did not come to save us all as a group. He did not try to convert the Sanhedrin to his ways. (The Sanhedrin was the Jewish religious 'government' if you will. They were the court, the government, the center of Jewish society.) No, he went to the individual. By this, Christ does not intend you to convert Saudi Arabia or to change them from the top down. That is what brought the Crusades, and that twisted logic is just as wrong now as it was then. We do not convert by the sword and we are not to use our faith as as an excuse to conquer others. You are to be the light that shines on those around you. Follow the will of Christ and let others see what a good and just man looks like. When they ask you why you are different you can explain that you have Christ in you.
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Post by dixonglory on Jul 29, 2010 11:29:00 GMT -5
John , thanks for ur answers.. honestly the christianity u describes is similar to my concepts on life and christianity. but on reading Ryans words i feel like he has some different thinking about a christian. i was trying to clarify his thinking.
b/w the question no 2. u read wrongly. means if u see a person who betrayed a missionary , what will u do [ and he is in usa ie at ur custody now. ]to him? u can answer now as a christian ...
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Post by Max Moore on Jul 29, 2010 11:38:03 GMT -5
a close friend of my fathers who i have known all my life tells a story:
he served in the US Airforce during WWII and when he left the airbase to perform a bombing raid over Germany, Priests came to bless the planes that would surely bring destruction to their enemies.
he was shot down and captured by the German forces and when he was brought in as a POW Priests were also present, only this time to bless the guns that had shot him down.
needless to say he is a rabid atheist to this day.
the hypocrisy of religious fanatics knows no bounds......each while killing in the name of......... (fill in the blank, it matters not wich denomination)
blind faith is a dangerous thing, in any instance. a relish for intolerance, and a disdain for intellectual inquisition, to question is Blasphemy. i will have no part of any organization with such preposterous notions.
i am not an atheist, but i reserve the right to choose for myself witch explanation of the workings of our universe i subscribe to and endorse........or none at all. i am not yet wise enough to decide.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 29, 2010 12:02:46 GMT -5
Dixon I apologize if you have misunderstood me in any way.
I 100% agree with johns responses. He said it much better than I could've put in words.
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Post by dixonglory on Jul 29, 2010 12:04:26 GMT -5
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 29, 2010 12:10:19 GMT -5
blind faith is a dangerous thing, in any instance. a relish for intolerance, and a disdain for intellectual inquisition, to question is Blasphemy. i will have no part of any organization with such preposterous notions. I agree with this part whole heartedly. The bible says question everything and hold on to what is Good. God has even said regarding tithe and offerings "test me in this and see that I will not open the windows of heaven and poor out a blessing on you." If you consider all the proper constants and variables truth will always prevail. When questioning understand that when something doesn't make sense to you, God is still God.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 29, 2010 12:13:34 GMT -5
Jesus said to turn the other cheek.
I don't understand why your asking these types of questions
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Post by dixonglory on Jul 29, 2010 12:48:51 GMT -5
Jesus said to turn the other cheek. I don't understand why your asking these types of questions sorry i cross posted. i didnt see ur response.i am sorry
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 29, 2010 13:16:20 GMT -5
to me it seems like persecution of Christians has increased alot in the country over the last few years and is heading in a direction that make me sick to my stomach
I cant hardly believe some of the things the ACLU fight in court----------thank God for groups like the ACLJ that fight against them
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Post by John Wilson on Jul 29, 2010 13:55:26 GMT -5
b/w the question no 2. u read wrongly. means if u see a person who betrayed a missionary , what will u do [ and he is in usa ie at ur custody now. ]to him? u can answer now as a christian ... Pray for him. Lead him to Christ. He has done this thing because he is lost and does not have Christ in his heart. The apostle Paul was guilty of exactly this same thing. Before he was a believer in Christ, he was personally responsible for hunting down and killing the followers of Jesus Christ. His name was Saul of Tarsus and he was a Pharisee working for the Sanhedrin. (The same Sanhedrin which had Jesus crucified by Pontius Pilate, the Roman prelate in charge of Judea.) Saul believed he was killing heretics and enemies of God. He held the coats of the men while the apostle Stephen was dragged from the steps of the temple and stoned to death in the street. He had sought out Stephen when word came that a follower of Jesus was preaching to his fellow Jews that Jesus was the Christ. So Saul came and had him killed. After killing Stephen, Saul set out on the road for Damascus. He had learned that more of Jesus' disciples were there teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. Saul was on his way to kill them, or at least deliver them to Jerusalem so they could be dealt with. Along that road a blinding flash came from the sky that blinded Saul. A voice from heaven said, "Saul, why do you persecute me?" The voice was the voice of Jesus. Saul's name was changed to Paul and he became the greatest evangelist of Jesus Christ in the history of the world and wrote the vast majority of what is now the New Testament of the Bible. Maybe the man who caused the deaths of those missionaries will become the greatest evangelist of Christ if only he knew Jesus Christ. That is our job. Reach out to him. It is our job to introduce him to the love of God. God will judge him, it is our job to reach out to him in his sin and his weakness. The role of a Christian is simple. It is to see past a person's failures in order to see their real needs.
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Post by Adam Koenig on Jul 29, 2010 15:10:03 GMT -5
RYAN , please clear my doubt: you say Christ is the only way to heaven,arent u? then do you mean all hindus , muslims and buddists are going to hell only because they dont believe/accept CHRIST AS their GOD. IS IT WISE? do u have any data that Christ himself told that he is the ONLY and only WAY TO heaven? John 14:6 , John 11:25. just a couple.
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