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Post by Alan Berget on Jan 18, 2012 11:26:28 GMT -5
The rules state that a foul should be called in a dangerous position and that should be a dangerous position. It is a hyper extension of the elbow if what I'm reading about Michael Todd. But georges is not a dangerous position just unordinary and not text book
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 18, 2012 11:30:48 GMT -5
Of course he beat pushkar 6-0 How do you pin that extended, leveraged, straight up forearm short of snapping it in half ? He would have won 120-0 if they let it go that long... Pushkar blew his wad first 2. If someone can tell me where the wrestle is in this armwrestle I will gladly shut up. A big boned nobody could beat pushkar and bresnan if he dropped under the table and used the pad as a fulcrum... There is no move, no strength, it's baloney.... It's NOT armwrestling At least George keeps his shoulder over tha pad lately, I saw mikes whole head under the pad against Tim in match 2.... Really?
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 18, 2012 11:31:42 GMT -5
The rules state that a foul should be called in a dangerous position and that should be a dangerous position. It is a hyper extension of the elbow if what I'm reading about Michael Todd. But georges is not a dangerous position just unordinary and not text book Agreed
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Post by TK on Jan 18, 2012 11:41:42 GMT -5
Of course he beat pushkar 6-0 How do you pin that extended, leveraged, straight up forearm short of snapping it in half ? He would have won 120-0 if they let it go that long... Pushkar blew his wad first 2. If someone can tell me where the wrestle is in this armwrestle I will gladly shut up. A big boned nobody could beat pushkar and bresnan if he dropped under the table and used the pad as a fulcrum... There is no move, no strength, it's baloney.... It's NOT armwrestling At least George keeps his shoulder over tha pad lately, I saw mikes whole head under the pad against Tim in match 2.... Really? i thought there was a rule for head above table?
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 18, 2012 11:48:35 GMT -5
I thought so, but considering his arm does not go straight, if the humerus is anything lower than parallel with the table his arm pretty much cant be stretched open anymore.
I think anything lower than parallel for anyone is BS.... Forget the shoulder and head it's easy to see the humerus in a match.
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Post by Devon Larratt on Jan 18, 2012 11:53:33 GMT -5
i personally love Jerry's/George's, or any other wonky style in armwrestling. Makes it way more interesting..
i know i am not in the majority in this, but i really think that people really need to open their minds a bit more. These guys are giving things away.. should make the matches easier..
Armwrestling is not powerlifting. its a fight, not just strength. Mike is Awesome.. George is Awesome. I know, iv'e pulled them.. I watch Jerry, he's great to.. its more complicated than you are wishing to believe.
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Post by Hungry Hippo on Jan 18, 2012 11:55:05 GMT -5
. I saw mikes whole head under the pad against Tim in match 2.... Really? LMFAO
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 18, 2012 12:04:15 GMT -5
i personally love Jerry's/George's, or any other wonky style in armwrestling. Makes it way more interesting.. i know i am not in the majority in this, but i really think that people really need to open their minds a bit more. These guys are giving things away.. should make the matches easier.. Armwrestling is not powerlifting. its a fight, not just strength. Mike is Awesome.. George is Awesome. I know, iv'e pulled them.. I watch Jerry, he's great to.. its more complicated than you are wishing to believe. I disagree.. I do have an understanding of the sport and the variables I know it's not powerlifting, I get the complexities .... Really I do I will never be made to believe that using your straight arm as a fulcrum is armwrestling at all. There are some guidelines we have to follow to make it a legit AW match... Agreed? I think this " move" or " style" does not meet any of the criteria... It's a loophole in the sport.... A survival tactic that is a go to when dominated... It is not AW Beyond the politically correct and buddy pats on the back..... You are a smart guy Devon, you understand angles and the body.... You really think I'm off base ? I won't put you in the position to actually answer that, maybe you have your beliefs, but I stand firm.
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Post by Neil Pickup on Jan 18, 2012 12:26:14 GMT -5
So what you are saying is forget the fact that a straight arm laying under the table has zero to do with armwrestling for the sake of having less rules ? I think if that move is the new thing then the little chance AW has of going anywhere will go out the window with matches like that. I have no gain in knocking it, I have never suffered a loss because of that "style" but it is unpinnable when executed how mike does it..... Its not armwrestling..... I'm not being hateful, but I can't call it legit. BUT Devon just beat Mike 4 - 2 last July Also Tim won the first Round of their UAL Supermatch, Denis (by no means the most Technically advanced Armwrestler in the World) also managed to circumvent it during their second encounter on Day 2 of Arnolds 2011......therefore it is apparently not unbeatable mate. Really not having a Pop at you Rob, as I respect your opinion and your straight shooting style, I remain an RVJ Fan but I am just stating the fact that Mike was pulling in the exact same style when he faced Devon and lost four Rounds out of Six.........ALL OF WHICH were entertaining AS HELL incidentally. On a different page to ya here Rob and I actually think that unusual styles such as this often provoke Evolution of Techniques. George, Pascal, Michael or Engin's famous 2001 Worlds Nighmare Russian all utilized a similar style and in fact of those mentioned herein Michael's style is BY FAR the most volatile as he often jumps up into offensive positions during a Match (trust me I've seen A LOT of his Battles A LOT of times from A LOT of angles) IF you can Supinate him........you can beat him, same Deal with George or Pascal too, ITS JUST THAT AIN'T EASY TO DO ;D Cheers Neil
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Post by Tonya Todd on Jan 18, 2012 12:26:38 GMT -5
Michael's arm DOES straigthen further than it does in matches because if he caught people on his bone lock, it would cause so much pain that he would stop. He is a fighter...an athlete...a champion competitor where "stop" is not even defined as a word. I can testify that after every tough supermatch, his biceps feel like they were going to pop. So, if he were catching them in a bone lock, his bicep would never be engaged....food for thought.
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Post by mactelle on Jan 18, 2012 12:32:28 GMT -5
Michael's arm DOES straigthen further than it does in matches because if he caught people on his bone lock, it would cause so much pain that he would stop. He is a fighter...an athlete...a champion competitor where "stop" is not even defined as a word. I can testify that after every tough supermatch, his biceps feel like they were going to pop. So, if he were catching them in a bone lock, his bicep would never be engaged....food for thought.
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Post by Alan Berget on Jan 18, 2012 12:42:27 GMT -5
Me personally I could really care less how others win or lose. All I care about is me doing well and not getting hurt and if knew I was gonna have to pull someone like that then I would get a game plan and execute it to the best of my abilities and what happens happens. I do know that when I am reffing I follow the rules and call it as I see it with absolutely no favoritism to anyone just cause that's their style.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 18, 2012 12:58:11 GMT -5
I'm not saying he's not a champion, he was very good before this style, but he has got wins using this style solely.
Neil, I hear ya, but look at the arm match one compared to match 2 and 3.. Big difference. With a guy like mike who is super enduring if he gets a guy like Tim weakened he did enough to win the rest of the matches. That move is exactly what weakened him.... Without it, it looked like a dominant day for Tim, but he blew his wad trying to pin an arm that was straight and from that angle... Unpinnable. Then the endurance comes into play and it's not as necessary once the edge is taken off.
If I remember correctly he froze up Denis and Devon in the same way.... He survived, burnt them in a bad spot then came up to drop the big shoulder roll. I suspect the wins Devon got were before he got to that optimal fulcrum hold.
I know he's your main man Neil and I like watching mike pull as he is a defensive puller and entertaining to watch. I am not trying to say he can't pull or isn't world class at all... I give him big props, but I can't overlook the fact that when he is seemingly dominated he is pulling out the straight arm under the table lever... Not trying to knock him, but in due respect to his opponents I can't help but think recent results would be very different if not for this tactic.
As a promoter Neil, I hope for your sake people don't start adopting this "style".... It will make for very questionable matches that will last forever and resemble armwrestling less and less the more we accept it.
I think AW is pinning a man by straightening out their forearm... If they are stronger you find a leverage or angle to equalize it... There is technique, but it is strength and dynamically driven. A guy with a stronger arm... Sure, use hand and back strength to negate that, but that takes a level of strength and torque to execute... But you are stronger somewhere in some angle if you are stretching your opponent open.... That's the point. You start standing tall, arm bent tight, point is to open your opponent while not getting pulled open yourself, ultimately that's what results in a pin.
So.... How do you pin a guy that has a straight arm buried and jammed into the pad like a fulcrum if you ran out of room to physically stretch him open ? I'd love to know, sure you can pin him before he gets there, but getting there shouldn't be an option.
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Post by Neil Pickup on Jan 18, 2012 12:59:20 GMT -5
ALSO p.s. (& I know this is nothing to do with RVJ's Pulling style Beefs) Jerry Cad shouldn't even be mentioned in this type of Thread as the Man is simply a LETHAL STRONG Dead Wrist Tri Presser. END OF (ironically as is Monster Mike when he wants to be for that matter).The Dead Wrist Tri Press is an insanely effective move when performed correctly and how anyone who fully understands the Sport, can have an issue with a Technique which utilizes the Major Muscle group in the human Arm to afford them success in an ARMwrestling match whilst often simultaniously inverting their opponents Hand & Wrist (and thereby potentially neutralizing their Attack) F*CKING BAFFLES THE SH*T OUTTA ME ;D I F*CKING HATE DEAD WRIST PRESSERS.............BUT I would NEVER question the legitimacy of the Pulling Style or an Armwrestler who happens to have perfected it Cheers Neil
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Post by David Owens on Jan 18, 2012 13:01:07 GMT -5
He rule about is the shoulder dropping below the elbow pad while in a losing position.....a losing position defined as 2/3 of the way down.....I have seen it a hundred times and have not witnessed it called once
The rules also state that any dangerous position can be stopped by the refs and in the pros this is also never called
Why do we allow pro pullers to pull in a way that we would not allow novice to pull?, leonard h has explained that its because pros have built up their tendons and BONES and they understand what their body can handle
These people are not the only ones with bones locks, brian johnson turns completely sideways, the only way to get through that once he gets to his spot would be to break his arm, reguardless if they can pull in this way without getting hurt it is against the rules and should be called like anything else
Enforce keeping shoulders square throughout the match, and call other rules that already exist and you end that issue,.....but you take away a lot of what makes armwrestling fun so screw it, it is what it is
Sent from my DROID2 using ProBoards
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