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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jan 24, 2013 10:58:25 GMT -5
I suspect the top rollers wouldn't be interested, especially the lighter ones that couldn't possibly beat a bigger opponent when hooked or strapped in a ref's grip. Great discussion. Here's my two cents: I think less weight classes (one is great) is the definitely the way to go. The fairest way to do this is to seed each round by weight. As a top roller I am very much against the hook/strap idea. You can't possibly determine the best puller in the house if you essentially eliminate top rolling and it would make the matches less interesting. Although i do think it could have a lot of appeal for novice tournaments as they are often familiar with pulling inside but don't know anything about top rolling. Although novices probably grip up much faster and slip much less than experienced pullers anyways. As a spectator i enjoy watching two top rollers battle outside. But yes, these type of matches usually end up in the straps. Often, i suspect, slips happen because the disadvantaged puller lets go. It's a very difficult call to make but handing out more intentional slip fouls, even to the wrong competitor, might help keep people honest. (maybe hand out a warning or foul with every slip to the person most at fault then strap them up?) I wouldn't mind a reduced (30 second) grip up time and i think a good strict ref, not hesitant to give warnings, could make this work. A good MC can make all the difference in keeping an audience engaged. I also think it is critical to have the brackets visible to the entire audience so everyone knows what's going on. Down time between matches can be eliminated if everybody knows who's up next. Certainly nobody wants to see a match stopped on a minor elbow foul. I don't know much about the running foul system. Does anybody know if there is a standard document or detailed explanation available on exactly how to apply this system? Of course, the obvious way to speed up a tournament is to add an extra table. Proper lighting at the venue with good views of the table are required. Another great feature would be a large tv/projector displaying zoomed in video of the competitors hands, especially in a larger venue. I think gripping up can be an exciting part of match, but the referees are the only ones with a good view of this. The audience finds it very very boring mostly because they can't see what's happening with any detail. I do understand the need to expedite tournaments, but in the bigger picture the growth of our audience doesn't come from the live event but rather from the video footage. We are never going to fill stadiums or arenas; even when standing 20 feet from the table I still can't see all the detail i'd like to. The videos will eventually reach an audience hundreds of times bigger than live events. Interviews and commentary can add some human interest ( which audiences love and need ) and all the boring parts can be edited out. To grow an audience we need to produce high quality videos from our tournaments, like what we've seen from pullerville.com. We all know our sport is exciting, we've had a large television audience in the past and we have a coolness factor unmatched by any sport. The internet is our new medium; let's give people something worth watching. I've started working on a ten camera video setup. I've purchased low cost kodak playsport zx3's (720p @ 60 fps) that will surround the table. I will choose the best angles for my final video and it would also be possible to publish all ten angles and let my audience switch between camera angles as they see fit. Well run tournaments are essential for recruiting new pullers, best of luck. It says hook start, not hook stay.... It's just a starting grip, and you can toproll to your hearts content in the straps.
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Post by Anthony Snook on Jan 24, 2013 11:04:13 GMT -5
Sounds good Giles. I would consider myself an outside puller and LOVE the strap idea. The slipping and all that jazz puts undue wear and tear on the hand/arm etc...and it takes to long regripping.. I don't love the hook idea, but can openers were invented for that.
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Post by Steven Green on Jan 24, 2013 11:17:14 GMT -5
Just start all matches in the rep grip straps. Let the pullers make thier move from there.
The rest is BADA$$.
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 24, 2013 11:20:27 GMT -5
Or play for a boot like we used to do for basketball. You lose you get kicked in the ass!! Yowza
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 24, 2013 11:28:59 GMT -5
Just start all matches in the rep grip straps. Let the pullers make thier move from there. The rest is BADA$$. I like that too. Smaller man can still call "hook" with the straps on. NO Slips!
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 24, 2013 11:32:01 GMT -5
You think... You have a solid group of big guys hammering each other ... Then come quarter or final time you have to pull Brandon dye, Geoff, vazgen... Etc. and start in a hook.... Could get real hairy considering the safe move at that point is roll em. There is a chance they are fresher and the shorter arms don't make life easier... I say depending on the level of pullers it could go in the lighter guys favor as much as the heavier ones Exactly the scenario I had in mind.
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Post by John Wilson on Jan 24, 2013 11:33:23 GMT -5
In tournaments run in this format you wouldn't be pulling a much bigger opponent til the finals or quarterfinals at best... With one class you still pull guys in your range til you go the whole way ... And if you do go the whole way you are able to present a threat.... Especially given the start advantage. That's a good point. I overlooked the way the brackets would be set up. This would also make an easy distinction in the finals between who the lighter and heavier guy is. If the lighter guy gets to pick the start format, it could be a big game changer. If nothing else, a tournament like this would be fun as hell.
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Post by Rick Laton on Jan 24, 2013 11:56:20 GMT -5
Just start all matches in the rep grip straps. Let the pullers make thier move from there. The rest is BADA$$. I think you are onto something. We need a change and we need it QUICK. Don't get too crazy though. We have had 54,76,98,220,242, heavy. That is WAY too many. Cut it in half. 165,200, heavy. Lightweight, Middleweight, Heavyweight. That will save a TON of time in itself. Do refs grip with the velcro straps. The others will add 2 hours to the tournament just because they are hard to get out of if you start every match in them. If you do strap starts, there is no need to basically eliminate the toproll. We don't need to reinvent the game. Just speed it up. Refs grip and straps will solve that problem. 3 classes will make larger and more competitive classes. The one class idea stinks. (Sorry). I don't care how many times he's pulled or if we are in the hook or straps I can't beat Michael Todd, John Brzenk, Todd Hutchings or a number of other top notch heavier pullers. You run one class and a 200 and up guy will win 90%. You want to ruin armwrestling, my suggestion is to go to one class. I like to see someone thinking outside the box. 3 classes (Don't start too high and kill the little guy - I'M TOO OLD TO START JUICING!!), start in the refs grip and in the straps, add some music and lets roll!!!
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 24, 2013 12:34:44 GMT -5
Rick my friend, You are missing the forrest because of the trees. You wouldn't have to pull M.T. Or anyone way bigger than u Until the very end of my tourney and by then, who gives a filp?, you're in the money. BTW, how do u ruin a sport or hobby that is already less legitimate and popular than CORNHOLE!?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 12:58:27 GMT -5
Giles I'm loving the idea. Now that I'm 164lbs after getting hella sick, I cringe at the idea of pulling your Dad or others that size, but would still be fun.
In my very limited tourney attendance, I would say the most fun have included music, an atmosphere other than an empty room, beer, and a good MC. Travis's NAL tourney was a blast. He keeps the crowd engaged, and if that happends, theres not going to be people leaving due to lack of interest.
Nothing worse than a dead MC, a dead setting, and 6 classes of 4 pullers each. Some have felt like T-Ball where everyone gets a trophy, and it takes an hour just to hand them all out.
Quick, fun and entertaining. Hand out some awards and cash, start after pulling and hangout.
Hope it works out man! I'll support it for sure
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Post by David Owens on Jan 24, 2013 13:18:58 GMT -5
It's not like a few guys here and there having one class tournaments is going to change how everyone else operates, the main reason being that there is no money in it, there will still be a ton Of tournaments out there with a ton of classes , if you pay down to 5th some small guys are gonna get paid! And maybe you will spark some interest from people who just wanna watch. Worst case scenario you have a nice short fun tournament that SOME will really enjoy!
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Post by jasonthomas on Jan 24, 2013 13:26:06 GMT -5
What i noticed the most while i attended my first event is that the time it took for some of the armwrestlers to get a starting grip seemed like a long time and alot of the crowd was getting bored and just kinda left and moved on to the next show i also thought that the number of slipping the grip was pretty high i liked watching the matches that involved being in a strap i did enjoy the fast matches they were very entertaining
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 24, 2013 13:36:53 GMT -5
10,000 people run in the rock n roll half marathon in Va Beach every year. $75 entry fee. Only one male and one female winner get paid. Thousands are there to make a showing and for the experience. Ya feelin' me now?
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Post by Glen Jaeschke on Jan 24, 2013 13:58:43 GMT -5
I like it all. I wouldnt expect to win the tournament because I dont train but it would be a lot of fun to be in. Good music DJ and classes up on a screen . If it doesnt all work at least you are trying to make it better. You can always tweek it and change things if needed.
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Post by Steven Green on Jan 24, 2013 15:01:03 GMT -5
Rick,
It’s a valid point that the bigger guy will have the advantage. But to Giles point that will be the then end (similar to an overall).
Look at Travis’s recent event. I would say there were 4 class winners. Cobra 175 and below, Todd H 220 and below, Chaffee 242, and Don HW.
These are not exact but close. So in my opinion it’s like an overall at the final four.
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