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Post by David Owens on Jan 30, 2013 21:44:09 GMT -5
Any new idea looks interesting to me. And I read these comments too. But I don't see how the sport will grow with these new rules and this tournament. You want to make it simple, open? To keep the crowd happy? We are not monkeys to keep a drunk crow happy. WAF created rules and updates them every time to keep the progress of our sport. We cannot compete in WAF, so we need to create a new sport for us? Probably it can be good for someone who is in a driving distance. But not much. There is no growth in this idea. But competition may be attractive to a drunk crowd. Vazgen This type of armwrestling will be much more exciting to any audience that WAF style "win on fouls" armwrestling. That stuff is hard to watch even if you know the people pulling and completely boring if you don't. Are you satisfied with the only people watching armwrestling being armwrestlers?
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Post by A L L E N F I S H E R on Jan 30, 2013 22:09:35 GMT -5
Cool idea, can't wait to see how this goes. Would be great to give $500 to the winner. Personally the way Running Fouls has been explained to me is ridiculous. I understand why you are trying to do it, but my professional opinion is, no position gained no foul. Calling a foul because someone lifted their elbow 1/4" of the pad is stupid. I would love to pull in the 165 lb class.
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 30, 2013 22:32:20 GMT -5
Yeah, Allen fouls will only be called if position is gained. Would love to be able to give the whole $500 to the winner, but I am worried about more big beast coming and discouraging the smaller beast from donating their money. Vasgen, my friend, I could give a $hit about growing the sport, I'm just tired of being bored to death and trapped in a venue for 4-6 hrs with 40 of my best armwrestling friends. If I'm going to attend or put on a tourney from now on, it's gonna have high energy (and hopefully beer). The reason Drenk, or any of the past guys that have pumped money into this sport come and go is because, they get no ROI (return on investment). Pumping money into our sport is like putting good money over bad. Why? It's boring as hell to watch! Period. Too many matches, too long to set up, too long to get a winner. The current supermatch craze will not get it done either. 6 rounds is too much. Way more often than not they are lopsided and lastly too many guys are becoming bad actors trying to create a fake personna for themselves. The only way to get ROI will be when you can charge spectators to watch. Either through PPV or to get in the door. If we put on a entertaing show to an already packed house, the next time we will have em' lined up down the street waiting to pay to get in and buys tons of food and alcohol from the owner of the venue. The more money we make him, the more he will offer up for the purse next time. This I am sure of.
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 30, 2013 22:41:50 GMT -5
Thank you David for being open minded. I'm not trying to change the game. There is still room for weight classes and anal rules, it's called state, nat'l and worlds tourneys. All others should be 100% live spectator driven events.
My pro/money event will be over in 2hrs, tops. Hopefully less. It will be run to completion first, then the trophy class will be an after thought for the trophy hunters/new guys/guys that just want to pull some more. This is similar to the model Travis has ran with some success, but with a few more enhancements that I feel will: 1. speed it up even more 2. add a little more drama/strategy 3. make sure the only guys walking around with cash in hand at the end of the night are the best pullers in the house. Period.
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Post by Vazgen Soghoyan on Jan 31, 2013 0:59:28 GMT -5
Any new idea looks interesting to me. And I read these comments too. But I don't see how the sport will grow with these new rules and this tournament. You want to make it simple, open? To keep the crowd happy? We are not monkeys to keep a drunk crow happy. WAF created rules and updates them every time to keep the progress of our sport. We cannot compete in WAF, so we need to create a new sport for us? Probably it can be good for someone who is in a driving distance. But not much. There is no growth in this idea. But competition may be attractive to a drunk crowd. Vazgen This type of armwrestling will be much more exciting to any audience that WAF style "win on fouls" armwrestling. That stuff is hard to watch even if you know the people pulling and completely boring if you don't. Are you satisfied with the only people watching armwrestling being armwrestlers? Arnold Classic is a WAF Rules Event. It has the largest crowd at the Expo. Plus we always have a celebrity on our stage. Now Call Stallone and say you changed the rule come to watch. LA Fitness Expo Tournament had the largest crowd and it is WAF rule basically (with Bill Collins spices). Unified Nationals is WAF Rule Event but has no crowd. Just because it is always in some lost venue that does not exist on any GPS. The last one in Reno Harrah's was the best. Any World Championship has the largest crowd. Ask Cobra, was there any space in stadium when he was winning his World Champion title in Vladikavkaz, Russia 1999? Kazakhstan 012 had a crowd. I want you guys understand that the growth is not in changing rules. Armwrestling is one of the attractive and breathtaking sports in the world today. It is your turn , David. I know you can't help, say something.
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Post by David Owens on Jan 31, 2013 1:30:17 GMT -5
Vazgen This type of armwrestling will be much more exciting to any audience that WAF style "win on fouls" armwrestling. That stuff is hard to watch even if you know the people pulling and completely boring if you don't. Are you satisfied with the only people watching armwrestling being armwrestlers? Arnold Classic is a WAF Rules Event. It has the largest crowd at the Expo. Plus we always have a celebrity on our stage. Now Call Stallone and say you changed the rule come to watch. LA Fitness Expo Tournament had the largest crowd and it is WAF rule basically (with Bill Collins spices). Unified Nationals is WAF Rule Event but has no crowd. Just because it is always in some lost venue that does not exist on any GPS. The last one in Reno Harrah's was the best. Any World Championship has the largest crowd. Ask Cobra, was there any space in stadium when he was winning his World Champion title in Vladikavkaz, Russia 1999? Kazakhstan 012 had a crowd. I want you guys understand that the growth is not in changing rules. Armwrestling is one of the attractive and breathtaking sports in the world today. It is your turn , David. I know you can't help, say something. Read my sig Vazgen and tell me if you understand? If not means when someone is being slightly ignorant and living only in the little box waf made for them I AM going to say something, your permission aside but thank you anyway. Now as for Arnold's and expo's sure they are fun but no e of those people other than armwrestlers are there specifically to watch armwrestling, waf is full of people yes ARMWRESTLERS! Not fans lining up to pay an admission to watch people they don't know for hours on end BE REAL! Giles is looking to find people who are not armwrestlers and give them a product that they might actually want to come back and just watch, but you won't understand that because you are a WAF hero and much to smart for the likes of us cucumber folk.
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Post by Tero Lampikari on Jan 31, 2013 3:38:49 GMT -5
Sounds GREAT! - All matches will start in the Straps and refs will set the grip - NO more slips and and/or finger pulling! - The lighter puller at the table gets to choose where the match STARTS - Straight up or Hook I'm especially interested in how this works. I hope there will be some videos. Good luck with the event!
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Post by John Wilson on Jan 31, 2013 8:45:43 GMT -5
... fouls will only be called if position is gained. Would love to be able to give the whole $500 to the winner, but I am worried about more big beast coming and discouraging the smaller beast from donating their money. ...I'm just tired of being bored to death and trapped in a venue for 4-6 hrs with 40 of my best armwrestling friends. If I'm going to attend or put on a tourney from now on, it's gonna have high energy (and hopefully beer). The reason Drenk, or any of the past guys that have pumped money into this sport come and go is because, they get no ROI (return on investment). Pumping money into our sport is like putting good money over bad. Why? It's boring as hell to watch! Period. Too many matches, too long to set up, too long to get a winner. The current supermatch craze will not get it done either. 6 rounds is too much. Way more often than not they are lopsided and lastly too many guys are becoming bad actors trying to create a fake personna for themselves. The only way to get ROI will be when you can charge spectators to watch. Either through PPV or to get in the door. If we put on a entertaing show to an already packed house, the next time we will have em' lined up down the street waiting to pay to get in and buys tons of food and alcohol from the owner of the venue. The more money we make him, the more he will offer up for the purse next time. This I am sure of. This is the best summary and mission statement for our sport I have ever read.
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Post by TK on Jan 31, 2013 15:33:56 GMT -5
... fouls will only be called if position is gained. Would love to be able to give the whole $500 to the winner, but I am worried about more big beast coming and discouraging the smaller beast from donating their money. ...I'm just tired of being bored to death and trapped in a venue for 4-6 hrs with 40 of my best armwrestling friends. If I'm going to attend or put on a tourney from now on, it's gonna have high energy (and hopefully beer). The reason Drenk, or any of the past guys that have pumped money into this sport come and go is because, they get no ROI (return on investment). Pumping money into our sport is like putting good money over bad. Why? It's boring as hell to watch! Period. Too many matches, too long to set up, too long to get a winner. The current supermatch craze will not get it done either. 6 rounds is too much. Way more often than not they are lopsided and lastly too many guys are becoming bad actors trying to create a fake personna for themselves. The only way to get ROI will be when you can charge spectators to watch. Either through PPV or to get in the door. If we put on a entertaing show to an already packed house, the next time we will have em' lined up down the street waiting to pay to get in and buys tons of food and alcohol from the owner of the venue. The more money we make him, the more he will offer up for the purse next time. This I am sure of. This is the best summary and mission statement for our sport I have ever read. ROI & GP FOR THE VENUE. IS KEY. COULDN'T AGREE MORE!! THERE IS NEED FOR CHANGE..... MORE POWER TO YOU. WHEN THIS SPORT ARRIVES? IS WHEN YOU GOTTA "PAY" TO SEE IT. T/K
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Post by TK on Jan 31, 2013 15:35:47 GMT -5
BUT....NATURAL CHARACTERS BEING BOISTERIOUS......IS MUCH MORE ENTERTAINING THAN FAKE WWE TYPE STUFF....A LITTLE CHEESE FACTOR KINDA HELPS THOUGH..LOL
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 31, 2013 16:28:12 GMT -5
Agree. It's gotta be real. It can be real smooth or real nasty. As long as it's real. Nice video btw.
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Post by John Milne on Jan 31, 2013 20:53:51 GMT -5
This is friendlying awesome
Do this!
One weight class is the way to go. Honestly, nobody cares who the best 154 lb guy is, spectators want to see the baddest man. Sure, they love to see David and Goliath (which they might see in the semis) and that will be what everyone is waiting for.
I'm sick of the ladies complaining on Facebook about how hard it is to cut the last 4 pounds off their frail 158 pound frame. Fack it.. show up and pull. Eat a facking steak the night before, bang your woman.. be a man and don't hide in saunas before the event.
This is a man's sport, a tough guy sport, we've lost some of that with all the little itty bitty weight classes and catering to novices bullsh1t. This is a real facking event with real cash and real men taking home the cheddar. If I'm available I'm showing up... and I'm eating a friendly1ng steak the night before.... if my woman is around she's gonna get helll too!!
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Post by David Owens on Jan 31, 2013 21:15:36 GMT -5
This is friendlying awesome Do this! One weight class is the way to go. Honestly, nobody cares who the best 154 lb guy is, spectators want to see the baddest man. Sure, they love to see David and Goliath (which they might see in the semis) and that will be what everyone is waiting for. I'm sick of the ladies complaining on Facebook about how hard it is to cut the last 4 pounds off their frail 158 pound frame. Fack it.. show up and pull. Eat a facking steak the night before, bang your woman.. be a man and don't hide in saunas before the event. This is a man's sport, a tough guy sport, we've lost some of that with all the little itty bitty weight classes and catering to novices bullsh1t. This is a real facking event with real cash and real men taking home the cheddar. If I'm available I'm showing up... and I'm eating a friendly1ng steak the night before.... if my woman is around she's gonna get helll too!! I always enjoy your posts John! And I agree with almost all of that. My one thing and its a BIG one lol I think it should be a goal for all of us that each town has armwrestling clubs. Now because of the level of some of the pullers who have been at it for years and some who are just beasts, it is important that we promote novice on a local level not so much at bigger events but it should be available to compete in every couple months without driving 400 miles. When that happens there will be enough people who care about it to make the great ones really matter and be superstars to the general public, but if you can tell me that Canada has a club/team in every city or anything close you will have changed mind.
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Post by John Milne on Jan 31, 2013 21:48:47 GMT -5
I'm very lucky to live where I do.
I don't have to drive more than roughly 3 hours every month for a tournament. They are usually fairly high caliber as well. With the Arm Melter being only 2 hours away (and triple elimination) I have a pro league I can regularly compete in. It's great for "novices" to compete in as well because of the triple elim.
There is rarely a distinction between am/novice or pro (MGC exception). We all show up and pull. It could be Earl Wilson, Mike Gould or Joe Blow... you take your licks and play on the tables afterward. There are several big and strong teams in Ontario who regularly support events too... (I know, I'm luckier than most).
Getting new people into the sport is cool. I don't agree with catering to them though. Awing in Ontario is strong.. I dare say the strongest region anywhere (based on numbers, relative quality, teams, etc.) This is not to say that I think we're better here but to say that we have better numbers and support here. We didn't build this by catering to novices, watering down the weight classes, and making sure everyone gets a pat on the back and a trophy.
Events like this (being talked about) will grow excitement... this should pay dividends in the long run. Novice trophy classes with 11 lb changes in classes will not... or at least hasn't yet.
Make it exciting to watch (The build it and they will come philosophy) is at work here. Let's embrace it.
Disclaimer: I don't want to lessen the efforts that many make to host novice events, novice Nationals etc. I just don't happen to agree with them full on.
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Post by Giles Russell on Jan 31, 2013 21:50:02 GMT -5
This is friendlying awesome Do this! One weight class is the way to go. Honestly, nobody cares who the best 154 lb guy is, spectators want to see the baddest man. Sure, they love to see David and Goliath (which they might see in the semis) and that will be what everyone is waiting for. I'm sick of the ladies complaining on Facebook about how hard it is to cut the last 4 pounds off their frail 158 pound frame. Fack it.. show up and pull. Eat a facking steak the night before, bang your woman.. be a man and don't hide in saunas before the event. This is a man's sport, a tough guy sport, we've lost some of that with all the little itty bitty weight classes and catering to novices bullsh1t. This is a real facking event with real cash and real men taking home the cheddar. If I'm available I'm showing up... and I'm eating a friendly1ng steak the night before.... if my woman is around she's gonna get helll too!! My man! I've come to the conclusion that this great sport of ours took a dump in the 90's when we started coddling ourselves and adopting this kindergarten mentality where everyone is a winner and leaves with a trophy. Time for a kick in the junk! We need to man up again.
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