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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 14, 2013 20:13:20 GMT -5
OK, here's the scenario. A long time puller has always toprolled. His hook is TERRIBLE. He would lose to an average novice his same weight. Hand and wrist is decent. Toproll is slightly above average. Backpressure/up pressure is pretty good. How long would it take to become a good hook puller if that is all he did? More importantly, how would one go about doing it? New guys come into the sport all the time with killer hooks. How did they get it? Lots of mileage on the elbows already. Need a bicep BEFORE starting to hook much. Is it even worth messing with? So again. Two questions:
1) how long? 2) how?
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Post by Robin the manhandler Chandler on Apr 14, 2013 20:16:40 GMT -5
Train with Toddzilla lol that's how I got my hook =)
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Post by Danial Worely on Apr 14, 2013 20:47:29 GMT -5
I hook at practice and toproll at tournaments
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Post by Josh (HITMAN) Bishop on Apr 14, 2013 21:20:00 GMT -5
^
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Apr 14, 2013 21:21:55 GMT -5
My answer would be that the long-time puller is a long-time puller for a reason...he knows what works for him, and being a top roller extends your career. I'd accept the fact that his hook will never be good enough to beat an open puller of comparable weight, so stick to what works.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Apr 14, 2013 21:42:02 GMT -5
Seems genetically disadvantaged... If he is already kinda seasoned as a puller and his hook isnt able to take your average novice... Truth is I doubt he'll ever be a "good" hooker... Maybe better, but not higher tier. Even if you don't hook, simply the act of armwrestling in any direction will strengthen the areas you hook to some degree. I think even devout toprollers should have a decent enough hook to beat most novices given there are naturals and freaks... But most without question given all the arm conditioning. Some people simply have it... Others dont. Fact is we all can't be training to become champions and get there... No matter the training people are gonna never place... Go 2 and out... Place last... It's just the facts.
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Post by Paul Walther on Apr 14, 2013 22:41:39 GMT -5
How long, it depends on the person if he is willing to change everything he thought was right and start with a new slate. Once in awhile you can teach old dogs new tricks but not all the time. If the person listens 6 months of consistent training maybe sooner. How, show up to my house once a week and I will show you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2013 4:49:38 GMT -5
I think biceps, lats and chest. A tight upper body in those area seems to help me with my hook. Unless he is a beast in those areas already. Then I'd say he'd better stick to winning with a TR
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Apr 15, 2013 5:29:11 GMT -5
Rick, this" idea" that they r TOTALLY different,is just wrong., I will P M u later, topping, depending on how u top, is not much different then hooking....OOPS, did I just say that? no way is that true, lol...
I won't respond on here, so if anyone has a wise crack OR Really wants to know, PM me...
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Apr 15, 2013 6:40:36 GMT -5
^^ I'm with ya, why I say if you are successful at one you should be good to some degree in the other
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 15, 2013 7:08:33 GMT -5
I think most people who suck at hooking are just doing it wrong. Unless this person's toproll is some crazy, fingers out, wrist dumped high flying toproll, he should be able to change from a hook to a toproll just by changing the direction of attack with his wrist. IF he's doing a proper hand control toproll.
The hook and the toproll are practically the same move. The difference is flexion versus pronation. Obviously there are some wacky toprolls and wacky hooks out there, but the basic moves are not very different at all.
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 15, 2013 7:13:23 GMT -5
edit:
If a person is used to toprolling by posting and cranking out backwards and around, hooking is going to be tough. These guys will usually get hooked and still try to crank backward and around, which does nothing but cause them to pull under their opponent, isolate the biceps, and then separate their own elbow.
If this is the case, the toproller needs to learn how to toproll inside and develop a tight lock with his side pressure. Once he can keep position then he can transition to a hook just by hooking his wrist instead of pronating over the top.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Apr 15, 2013 9:41:59 GMT -5
^^^ the exact move that plagued me for years...even still in detrimental matches I still do it as a product of bad practice habits. Weird that something so wrong and disadvantaged can become comfortable if you do it enough Old habits die hard
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 15, 2013 10:12:15 GMT -5
Man, ain't that the truth.
The hardest part of this sport is that we often go by what "feels" right even though it looks way different than it feels to us. I missed out on so much progress because I didn't have someone to slap me upside the head when I did something stupid. If I was strong enough to get away with it I thought it was the right thing to do. Now those idiot moves and positions are seared into my brain and muscle memory.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Apr 15, 2013 11:17:29 GMT -5
All of that is fine if you're blank slate, but it's asking a lot of a seasoned top roller with years (if not decades) of muscle memory and elbow damage to deal with.
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