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Post by Mark "The Giant Slayer" vieira on Oct 26, 2013 10:28:46 GMT -5
Mr Wilson I am far from a amateur.All I'm saying is why do pullers walk up to the table grab your hand so high that you can't even see your thumb nail and expect to start like that it's called friendlying around and that is why events are so boring to watch.We all know what the refs will want before they say go so what's the point of a 60 sec grip up I guess you call it technique
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Post by John Wilson on Oct 26, 2013 10:56:34 GMT -5
Mark, my comment wasn't directly at you. I apologize if it came across that way. I was making a general statement.
I tried to be brief for the first time in my life and it backfired on me. So let me explain what I meant.
I totally agree with you, which is what my statement was alluding to. There is no reason on earth that anybody walks up to the table with the crazy idea that they are going to get a whole lot more than what you can get in a ref's grip.
I think the reason so many newer pullers come to the table with ridiculous expectations is because that's how they were taught. If I had a time machine, I'd go back to my earliest days of pulling and put earplugs in my own ears. I learned so much crap that just wasn't true, and in many cases was counterproductive.
And this craptastic folkore is still being taught to new armwrestlers:
- you want your hand to wrap as far around the back side of your opponent as possible, so when you go to the table drive your hand all the way around the back.. FALSE
- you want to be as high as humanly possible. Then tell the ref the OTHER GUY is covering your thumb so the ref will make the guy go even lower.... FALSE
- grip up and then pull the guy way over to your side and lock him down and make him pull you out... MORE CRAP
- you can cock your wrist in the setup, but slide your elbow across so that the back of your hand is vertical.... UTTER NONSENSE
But watch any rookie set up and these are the things they honestly believe they are supposed to get away with. It's the same crap we all learn early on and it takes years to figure out that it's a huge pile of bullcrap.
With experience, we learn the opposite: The difference between a ref's grip and a fantastic grip is pretty minor.
- How much pocket you want between the palms
- Fingertip placement on your opponent's hand... but NOT wrapping around him twice. If your fingers can't get there in a ref's grip, then your fingers just don't get there.
- the angle of your knuckles / wrist. Very minor adjustment.
Watch the great armwrestlers. Most of them are very easy to set up- there are a few exceptions of course.
All I'm saying is that a decent armwrestler can overcome a grip that isn't perfect. A rookie armwrestler cannot.
A puller who can't win from a ref's grip needs to learn more. Chances are that he gets everything he wants at practice and a fair grip freaks him out because he already thinks he's in a losing position.
Sure, you want the grip you want. But all the rookie crap is holding a puller back in the long run.
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Post by John Wilson on Oct 26, 2013 11:01:07 GMT -5
People also need to ditch the notion of a "fair" grip. The rules say you must get a LEGAL grip. It does not imply that both guys will be happy with what they get. That's up to each puller.
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Post by Karen Bean on Oct 26, 2013 12:15:20 GMT -5
25+ years of refereeing says one thing ~ the bigger the guys, the easier it is! The smaller the guys, the more fighting and playing around jockeying for grip.
99.9% of everything on the table would be so very much easier if everyone would do one majorly important thing~~~~~actually practice as if you are in an event with the toughest referee out there at the table. If you practice within the rules, you won't have problems following and being within the rules in a tournament. If you practice outside the rules, you will always have problems, never be comfortable, never feel like you are getting what you want, etc.
Practice, practice, practice the RIGHT way makes it easy!
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Post by D.J. Lee on Oct 26, 2013 17:36:42 GMT -5
TRAIN ALL THE GRIPS! =)
This is like when I first started arm wrestling. I sucked at hooking. So I was told to train my hook all the time.
Train low grips, neutral grips, high grips, crappy grips, awesome grips, comfy grips, all the grips!
Thanks for the inspiration! (^_______^)
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Oct 26, 2013 19:30:44 GMT -5
Accept the hand you are born with... Gripping up doesn't make your hand longer. Learn to play the cards you are dealt... There is a yin for every yang , there are circumstances that a low grip is gold. I have gone lower as guys fought to get higher... And I let em take it... I just wrap low and their disillusioned of the "higher hand toproll"... Leads them right into getting turned under and smoked. When you get too high you are either banking on a slip or breaking fingers... When it doesn't happen you leave your arm without an alternative... It's over before adjustment... I have been on both ends of this situation many times... Part from bad practices such as john speaks of and on the winning side from realizing that shoe didn't fit and researched real arm wrestlers like bath, brzenk and engin.... There is a middle ground and a place for every grip and position .. Knowing when and how to use it separates the pack
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Post by David Marrocco on Oct 26, 2013 22:31:35 GMT -5
Learn how to adapt or take an ASS Whipping!!!!! Its your job not to be Manipulated by your opponent! It's ALL ON YOU Part Of The Sport Don't Cry about getting Top Rolled or Hooked Learn to (FORCE YOUR MOVE)
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Post by David Owens on Oct 27, 2013 12:46:17 GMT -5
25+ years of refereeing says one thing ~ the bigger the guys, the easier it is! The smaller the guys, the more fighting and playing around jockeying for grip. 99.9% of everything on the table would be so very much easier if everyone would do one majorly important thing~~~~~actually practice as if you are in an event with the toughest referee out there at the table. If you practice within the rules, you won't have problems following and being within the rules in a tournament. If you practice outside the rules, you will always have problems, never be comfortable, never feel like you are getting what you want, etc. Practice, practice, practice the RIGHT way makes it easy! This↑!
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Bart Wood
Silver Member
Pennsylvania
Posts: 310
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Post by Bart Wood on Oct 28, 2013 18:28:32 GMT -5
Yep what Karen said is so true. Frank told me that a few years ago and I think it was great advice.
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Post by Keith Dowdy on Oct 28, 2013 20:03:01 GMT -5
25+ years of refereeing says one thing ~ the bigger the guys, the easier it is! The smaller the guys, the more fighting and playing around jockeying for grip. 99.9% of everything on the table would be so very much easier if everyone would do one majorly important thing~~~~~actually practice as if you are in an event with the toughest referee out there at the table. If you practice within the rules, you won't have problems following and being within the rules in a tournament. If you practice outside the rules, you will always have problems, never be comfortable, never feel like you are getting what you want, etc. Practice, practice, practice the RIGHT way makes it easy! I have always believe this. But unfortunantley to many are concerned with winning in practice instead of learning to set up in a legal starting position. Remember there are generally no trophies given out in practice.
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Post by Hungry Hippo on Oct 28, 2013 20:19:03 GMT -5
I blame the staggered pads for alot of your carving in. Give me straight acrossed pads all day..end of carving in
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Post by Mike West on Oct 29, 2013 14:14:32 GMT -5
You really think I couldn't carve in on you on straight pads if I wanted to?
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Post by John Wilson on Oct 29, 2013 14:36:12 GMT -5
Sure you could, Mike. But staggered pads have made it worse, in my opinion. You have to pronate in the setup to avoid carving in. (you had to do it on straight across pads, too, but it wasn't so exaggerated.)
People have been setting up on staggered pads so long now that they don't even realize they are pronating. So, when someone doesn't pronate, it feels like they are carving in to the other guy.
Have I mentioned that I hate staggered pads?
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Post by Mike West on Oct 29, 2013 17:50:29 GMT -5
John, I was kinda ribbing Jonathan I see what your saying, I'll pulled on both styles for years (and the donut), the ONLY thing I like better about staggered pads is that it's easier for me to stop a presser. Ask Jonathan ;D
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Post by Mike West on Oct 29, 2013 17:59:31 GMT -5
I think the whole thread has gotten away from what Allen's original post was about. Allen's video demo is basically wanting everyone to have to cap, and thinks that that would be fair, that would only be the case if every ones hand was the same size, and we know that's not the case. He talks about keeping people off your index finger in the set up, if your silly enough to let your opponent up there then you should get beat IMHO.
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