Testing: To profile or not to profile

[John Milne]

Just like the title says.

Instead of random testing, should testing be streamlined to focus on the people who are "most likely" to be using PED's?

I don't care about "political correctness", it's driven society down as far as I'm concerned. To be most effective it could be tailored to actually catch someone doping instead of potentially testing someone who is most likely not.

Of course people will get their backs up, but they'll be up anyway. Someone who is not doping most likely won't care if their name is pulled but would hate it if they knew their opponent was pissing hot and snuck through.

To those who have been in the game long enough - most PED users are fairly easy to spot. Sometimes they'll even talk openly about it. Some people you just "know" are on. Why not hedge your bets and go with the odds here?

And yes, I'm aware that there are some people will get through because nobody thinks they're on. But some will get through anyway. This idea is just about trying to improve the house odds.

[Pete & Tim]

Tim B again. The flaw to your approach is that it leaves it in human hands, how unfair is that you know the powers would have their pets who you kmow are on but don't get teated. Just like those names that always get away with blaten cheating but becouse of who they are don't get called on it ever !

[John Milne]

You have a very good point.
I wonder if it came down to a vote between the pullers in the class though. How would that be?

[John Milne]

Having the pullers vote who to test (among the top 3) would likely yield the best results

[Joe Dimino]

Tim B is right, anything but random computer generated hit lists opens the door to corruption.
Also, I've always wondered the extent of the strength benefits steroids give the tiny muscles of the forearm. Are steroids a big factor in competitive grip sport? Maybe Eric R, RVJ, or James R, could answer that. Personally I've had much more success against guys with 18" arms than guys with 18 years experience.

[Pete & Tim]

Tim B again Why not just test all the #1 guys and random 2nd and 3rd. Or have everyone piss in cup at weigh ins and then random 1st and 2nd that way everyone has to give sample and take chance on being cought cuz if a guy is cought after he wins who knows who he beat that could have won

[John Milne]

That could work also Tim.

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

I'm diggin this.
I like All these ideas...
I would rather pay more entry fee personally and test top 3 every class.
If a standard event is $20 entry fee... Then bump it to $50... In a 10 man class that's an extra $300

Considering how many pull multiple classes, and a half a$$ed meal is more expensive... Money should not be an issue at all

In ALL money events... Top 3 should be mandatory... I'd happily pay a high entry fee for a solid test that goes back far enough.

[John Milne]

Ahh yes, the lure of rose coloured glasses Mr. Vigeant. The fit so well don't they? They feel so good too.
However, this (at least in this current landscape) isn't feasible. All money events? Many promoters don't care or even want testing. Why would they? They'd be missing out on a lot of potential athletes and most of the big name guys. These guys are essential for promoting these big time events too. I assume you've just spoke quickly from your heart and that you actually understand the numbers (again in the current landscape).

One needs to see the reality of the sport and it's athletes. Forced testing is not good for the sport in my opinion, at least not right now. If it is on the amateur Nataional level en route to WAF then I agree that it's a good step but to attempt to force promoters with real money to comply isn't going to work.

I don't mean to discourage you or anyone else btw, I just think a real look needs to be taken. If the entire sport was "clean" we all know some guys would would do a hell of a lot better and contrary we all know some guys we'd never see again.

I almost regret mentioning this but it's relevant.. people DO in fact pass tests who are loaded to the titz too. On that token we're not making any more of an even playing field than not testing at all.. in fact it's even less even (if that was one's goal). Consider that - a less even playing field will most likely be the result with testing involved. It's the whole "bring a knife to a gun fight" scenario.

It's a very broad subject and goes on forever with no 100% agreed upon solution. However, steps are being taken to make changes. I hope the ones responsible are content with the outcome.

[David Owens]

I think they said they are testing 10 people?

If that's the case 11 lbs weight classes takes out being able to test all the first place pullers.I really feel that would be the best most unbiased way to go, I don't know how much more that would cost but it would make it to where you couldn't win a national title without a clean test

[John Milne]

If I may play devil's advocate for a minute.

Some guys will say that they only juice so they can compete with the rest. Casting anyone's "morals" aside this is a legitimate concern that many non PED users have and base a decision on. When all the guys are juiced the field is level right? Or at least more level than if one user is (and tests clean) and the rest are clean.

I don't give much credence to people who take their stance based solely on "fairness". However, if they take the stance that they want to protect people who don't want to use PED's then that seems logical and more legitimate. Often times motives are masked to make look better to the masses rather than being disclosed for what they really are.

Personally, I would not mind seeing both levels exist. I loved watching PRIDE Fighting Championships (non tested) as well as the current UFC (tested). Who doesn't want to see the best versions of those athletes compete? In the end, if there ever is money in the sport the consumer will dictate what stands up.

Let's also not ignore the elephant in the room that is the person who PED's year round and cleans up 2 weeks before the competition. Fair to someone who's never used?? Not at all? Reality? Absolutely.

The sport is no longer at a point where tire kickers can say "What loser would juice for a plastic trophy?". There is now life changing money in the sport. The lure is certainly there and it's strong to many athletes. I'm just rambling now. It's not often that a serious topic arrives on the board any more that also has serious replies to it.

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

I was just saying it's a great idea...and I proceeded with the ideas. Had I known this was to be taken literally I would never have posted because reasons you outline.
It won't happen and unless it is policed 100 times more than the above scenarios... It still has holes like Swiss cheese.
I was just joining in... Not really trying to resolve a problem that is light years away for this sport to resolve.
Our thought is the minority... That alone is a huge hurdle we may never overcome

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

Like I said... The only way to test is random and often in months coming up to an event .
Say you register or qualify for an event like Olympics... 6 months in advance. Once qualified or registered you are subject to random testing from day of registration all the way to competing... With a minimum number of tests between that time.
A lifetime of using and the gains that come with it can't be accounted for, but from a certain point on ... It can be regulated or knocked off balance... IF that was a real goal.

Or the same system year round. Like say you are now registered with WAL... You are subject to year round testing with a minimum number of tests a year... Regardless of events on the docket for you

[John Milne]

I didn't mean it to be agrumentative Rob. Topics like this need good conversation and ideas.

I think year round testing may be coming this way if WAL gets where it wants to go. It's going to take the kind of money WAL has to make it conclusive.

[Rob Vigeant Jr.]

Agreed.
I'm at a point where I don't give a sh!t anymore... I mean I do, but it's like shoveling sh!t against the tide.

I'm fortunate enough to compete on a high level as I am and believe this year I'll be a solid number 1 regardless.All cleaning it up will do is make it easier for me.

However I have witnessed transformations and seen performance on a table skyrocket jump drastically from it... Well like Jeff janes outlined... It did make a HUGE difference... Guys that used to blast hiim he was posing with... That's pretty big.

The real clean guys... The ones who have always been clean... They are a very very small group.
I'm talking about mid range pros and up... Not novices or guys that lose all day