|
Post by Austin Slater on Dec 30, 2006 18:57:42 GMT -5
I think people in Iraq would disagree with you on Iraq being worse off. I have friends who have spent extended time there as well and the Iraqi people are constantly coming up to them with gifts and words of encouragement. There are no more mass murders, rapings, torture camps, child prisons etc. How were things better when these things were taking place?
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 18:59:49 GMT -5
So is this any worse then 3000 plus dead in New York? Is this worse then Saddams Killing of innocent people? Is this worse then 800,000 thousand Christians dying in the Sudan? Is this worse then the beheadings done on Muslim tv? Im guessing you would rather stand naked with underwear on your head then to be caught by a islamic extremest and not be a muslim. On a side note I do not condone what those soldiers did in the pics and they are paying the price for it. . . why are you bringing the religion again and again ? what a provocative man are you.on this board we had tens of religious arguments and everyone is sick of it!! what Sudan has to do with this subject? you tell about Sudan then i tell you about Christian Hitler killing millions of people? or killing and slaving black people?? or crusaders that raped,murdered,stoled?? what is your problem?how did you come to religion out of this Saddam subject?you do not even know Saddam's regime has nothing to do with Islamic Regime.how can i discuss with you when you dont even know it?
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Snook on Dec 30, 2006 19:00:02 GMT -5
Engin, you are without a doubt correct about the rape and muder of that family. One of the guys is from the town I work in(speilman) You tell us these facts like you think Saddam should have stayed in power. Do you think this? I really hope not considering he was one of your neighbors and anything could have happened with him. Was it ok that uday could and did walk into any college and take any woman he wanted and if she didn't comply rape her? Most of the people are glad we are there/got rid of saddam. Most of those who are not are the ones who used to live the good life carrying out saddams orders and lived by no law under his rule.
|
|
|
Post by Austin Slater on Dec 30, 2006 19:03:21 GMT -5
Hitler was not a Christian that is a flat out lie again. He used the catholic church for political gain. I would love to debate the true nature of the crusades, slavery, Saddams religous stance etc but it will lead to nowhere and your right people dont want to hear it. Like I said earlier leave the anti-american posts off the board!
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:03:45 GMT -5
I think people in Iraq would disagree with you on Iraq being worse off. I have friends who have spent extended time there as well and the Iraqi people are constantly coming up to them with gifts and words of encouragement. There are no more mass murders, rapings, torture camps, child prisons etc. How were things better when these things were taking place? yea yea sure,the things are better with everyday hundreds of people dying everything is better in Iraq!! wake up,even Bush woke up but you are still sleeping.Iraq is hell right now!! no one is doing anti-American posts,the fact is that being against Bush's politics do not make me anti-American!!there are millions of Americans that disagree with Bush,are they anti-American too??!
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Snook on Dec 30, 2006 19:07:42 GMT -5
I couldn't catch up to you and Austin, I know you said he is a criminal dictator. Do you think we should have left saddam alone? let him kill and torture whoever, let uday rape whoever, and gas whoever.
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:11:47 GMT -5
Engin, you are without a doubt correct about the rape and muder of that family. One of the guys is from the town I work in(speilman) You tell us these facts like you think Saddam should have stayed in power. Do you think this? I really hope not considering he was one of your neighbors and anything could have happened with him. Was it ok that uday could and did walk into any college and take any woman he wanted and if she didn't comply rape her? Most of the people are glad we are there/got rid of saddam. Most of those who are not are the ones who used to live the good life carrying out saddams orders and lived by no law under his rule. Anthony, do not listen Austin!! no body is defending Saddam,he was a criminal dictator!! but the things in Iraq now out of control,believe me that blood seems like will never stop and it does not even slow down.Saddam has deserved to die but his death will make things even worser.those people are out of control.they kill eachother everyday. i am happy to see that you are objective of accepting your own mistakes unlike Austin.i was not comparing the crimes of Saddam with the crmies of US soldiers but they do crimes too.i have watch American soldiers taping themselves while shouting around for fun while being back side of the truck.shouting Iraqies like they are animals,in fact you would not even do it to the animals.not every crime can find good hearted soldiers to admit it,and not every crime can be filmed by the criminals.hundreds of the crimes are being covered. i do not think Saddam's regime was good,but what is happenning now is out of control and worser.i am shame of Iraqy people as being neighbor.they should have dealt with these problems without killing eachother.
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:14:07 GMT -5
I couldn't catch up to you and Austin, I know you said he is a criminal dictator. Do you think we should have left saddam alone? let him kill and torture whoever, let uday rape whoever, and gas whoever. Anthony, understand one thing please.Saddam was doing the same things when he was friends with USA too.do you believe that USA would try to occupy China too if China's ruler was doing the same thing that Saddam was doing?
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:17:52 GMT -5
CNN is my media too?
Five soldiers charged in Iraq rape-murder case
Mahmoudiya mayor says alleged rape victim was 14
(CNN) -- Four U.S. soldiers in Iraq are charged with participation in the "rape and murder of a young Iraqi woman and three members of her family," the U.S. military said Sunday.
A fifth soldier is accused of dereliction of duty for failing to report the offenses.
All five are charged with conspiring with former Pfc. Steven D. Green to commit the crimes, the military said, in connection with the incident in March in Mahmoudiya, Iraq.
There have been conflicting reports about the alleged rape victim's age. Sunday, Reuters news agency released documents indicating that she was 14.
Reuters said identification cards and death certificates give the victim's date of birth as August 19, 1991.
The mayor of Mahmoudiya confirmed that birth date to CNN.
However, a Justice Department affidavit in the case against Green says investigators estimated victim's age at about 25, while the U.S. military said she was 20.
The U.S. military statement Sunday made clear that officials are aware of the discrepancies and that her age is an important part of the investigation.
Green has been charged in a U.S. civilian court with rape and murder. Last week he pleaded not guilty in federal court in Kentucky.
Prosecutors have said Green shot and killed an Iraqi man, woman and child before raping a young female from the same family and killing her. (Watch leaders disagree on 'American justice' -- 1:24)
A Justice Department affidavit says Green and other soldiers planned to rape a young woman who lived near the checkpoint they manned in Mahmoudiya.
The affidavit says three soldiers allegedly accompanied Green into the house, and another soldier was told to monitor the radio while the assault took place.
The affidavit says Green shot the woman's relatives, including a girl of about 5; raped the young woman; then fatally shot her.
Soldiers are quoted in the affidavit as telling investigators that Green and his companions then set the family's house afire, threw an AK-47 rifle used in the killings into a canal and burned their bloodstained clothing.
Green was honorably discharged from the Army before the incident came to light after being diagnosed with an unspecified personality disorder, according to court papers.
The military charges against the five soldiers were issued Saturday. The military, in its news release, did not name them.
A U.S. defense official told CNN the five soldiers are still on their base in the Mahmoudiya area, have had their weapons taken away, and are being escorted everywhere they go on the base.
Green remains behind bars in Louisville, Kentucky.
The military, in its news release Sunday, wrote that the charges are "merely an accusation. Those accused are presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."
The statement said the soldiers still on active duty will face an Article 32 investigation, similar to a grand jury hearing in civilian law. The Article 32 proceeding will determine whether there is enough evidence to place them on trial.
|
|
|
Post by Anthony Snook on Dec 30, 2006 19:23:53 GMT -5
Your right and it was wrong then and its wrong now. I don't know my government does some crazy things.
|
|
|
Post by Austin Slater on Dec 30, 2006 19:25:05 GMT -5
Engin what is your point with this? Did you not read my earlier response? I dont condone any soldier who rapes an innocent victim. My point was that it was an isolated incident and not the norm. We have thousands and thousands of troops and the actions of a very small group does not represent the U.S. military as a whole. Do not say I support what those did because Im as against it as you are and you know it.
On Iraq being better off. People are dying because its a war! How is this worse then innocent people dying in torture camps, children prisons, mass rapes and tortures of anyone opposing Saddam etc.
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:28:56 GMT -5
. Was it ok that uday could and did walk into any college and take any woman he wanted and if she didn't comply rape her?. you guys need to understand one thing,i am not an Iraqy neither i like Arabs in general.also no one is defending the crimes of Saddam,why would i call it "crime" if i would defend it? all i say is that i watch on news everyday that hundreds of people are dying and it does not even slow down. am i the only man that thinks that Bush strategy was wrong? no American thinks that Bush was wrong? if there are,then are they anti American too? being an American or being not against Americans, requires to support everything that George Bush does?
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:33:55 GMT -5
Engin what is your point with this? Did you not read my earlier response? I dont condone any soldier who rapes an innocent victim. My point was that it was an isolated incident and not the norm. We have thousands and thousands of troops and the actions of a very small group does not represent the U.S. military as a whole. Do not say I support what those did because Im as against it as you are and you know it. On Iraq being better off. People are dying because its a war! How is this worse then innocent people dying in torture camps, children prisons, mass rapes and tortures of anyone opposing Saddam etc. they were not in war with eachother before operation iraqy freedom.. they were not killing eachother,they were controlled by a sick man.but now they are killing eachother none stop.somedays over 200 deaths,not a single day that there is no murdering.Saddam was a sick man and was punishing disobedience but now people kills eachother and i dont even know why!! small groups are known ones of the crimes,there are more crime that are known but not proven in Iraq.
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 19:43:45 GMT -5
why do you call me anti American?why would i share everything i know with Americans openly and in also private ways? why would i tell tactics to the American pullers in the World Championships if im an anti American? how can you accuse me with that? politicians can not unvalidate the innocence of a nation with their wrong doings,as far as i followed the American senate elections Americans have been realising the wrong doings of Bush.
i am also unhappy by the news of Americans losts.those soldiers,what are they doing there except being used by dirty politicians? should they not have families and kids by now?i do not think that they have healthy pysicology by being in that hell.i am sure that they are afraid to get killed in any moment before reaching their beloved ones.
do not tell me about 3.000 death in NY,i felt big pain whenever i watched it on news.no good hearted man would not be sorry by that tragedy.i should have never shared my thoughts,im sick of being misunderstood.
|
|
|
Post by enginterzi on Dec 30, 2006 20:17:59 GMT -5
Austin, all i wrote was that US soldiers have done same kind of crimes too.you called it a flat lie and made me prove that i am not lying.otherwise i would not prove it to you,even though you wanna see only what you wanna see. "Electrical wires" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_4/index.html "Dehumanization" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_2/index.html"Sexual exploitation" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_3/index.html"Dog pile" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_6/index.html"Lacerations" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_7/index.html"Working dogs" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_8/index.html"Mentally deranged" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_9/index.html"Other government agencies" www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/chapter_5/index.html if acts of the ritual humiliation could be used to "soften up" the men,then the rape of female detainees is hardly unimaginable. but how can we be sure?in january 2004,lt general ricardo sanchez,the senior military official in Iraq,ordered maj. gen. Antonio m.taguba to investigate persistent allegations of human rights abuses at abu ghraib.the taguba report that in at least one instance a US military policeman had raped at least one female prisoner and the guards had video taped and photographed the naked female detainess (i wonder what is the general percentage of rapes being video taped? and being captured by the honest officials to be used as prove?) www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-12-congress-abuse_x.htm ABU GHRAIB PHOTOS CAUSE GASPS IN CONGRESS washington---a graphic slide show shown to members of congress on wednesday included images of U.S. military forcing Iraqi prisoners into sexual poses and threatening them with dogs. more than 1.800 images,including video clips,were screened by members of the House and Senate in separate classified briefings under Pentagon supervision.the law makers disagreed over whether or not the images should be made public,but the reaction to the content was vehement. (i wonder 1.800 images is represanting what percent of the crimes). "appalling" said senate majority leader Bill Frist.. "horrific" said senate minority leader Tom Daschle. "my stomach gave out" senator Saxby Chambliss said.he said the pictures depicted American soldiers "forcing iraqies to commit sexual acts,and seeming to enjoy what they are doing". republican Jane Harman said,"disgusting,depraved acts" left her convinced American soldiers were guilty for torture. "there is no definition of the geneva convention or human decency that would permit these acts" she said. sen Bill Nelson said the PHOTOS SHOWED A NUMBER OF SOLDIERS ,AS MANY AS SEVEN OR EIGHT IN ONE PHOTO,OBSERVING SOME OF THE SECENES.he said THAT IS EVIDENCE THAT KNOWLEDGE OF THE ABUSE WENT BEYOND THE FEW SOLDIERS WHO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED TO COMMITTING IT.
|
|