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Post by Ryan Thames on Dec 31, 2006 10:50:39 GMT -5
that was gay
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2006 11:45:11 GMT -5
Allen, the conversation-starter, Hester...... I say, good riddance to the 3.5 feet of snow in my back yard! Well, maybe I'll say that in a week... Hi Allen! How're the holidays down in the bayou?
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Post by Ryan Thames on Dec 31, 2006 11:53:55 GMT -5
Those people may not be afraid of death..........But obviously our military isnt afraid of killing them.
Who is more dangerouss? A man who has nothing to lose? or a man who will fight to keep his family from losing what they have.
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Post by enginterzi on Dec 31, 2006 12:03:41 GMT -5
so what is the solution?Iraqies killing eachother till no more people in Iraq?Saddam was killing people who did not obey him,but Iraqies were not killing eachother at that time.now it is great that no more Saddam in Iraq,but the things are more uncontrolable.Shiites,Sunnies and Americans they all killing eachother everyday.i agree with you guys about Saddam was criminal and his ways was wrong but when you finish his dictatorship you must also bring a better alternative that "WORKS" in reality.what works for you may not work for others.more US military stays over there more US soldiers will die without any doubt.i understand that US wants to complite what it started but it really seems like not working.tens of people dies everyday,let us not forget that most of the people that dies are the innocents who were supposed to be saved by the intention of operation iraqy freedom. you are right to think that most of these killings are happenning in Iraqies themselves because of being part of different religious groups but these facts should have known before doing such a military movement. ReaganWhite House Middle East Envoy Donald Rumsfeld shakes hands with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during his visit on december 19-20 1983.Rumsfeld would visit again on march 24. 1984,the day that the U.N. released a report that mustard gas and tabun nerve gas had been used by Iraq against Iranian troops.the New York Times reported from Baghdad on march 29. 1984,"American Diplomats pronounce themselves satisfied with relations between Iraq and the United States and suggest that normal diplomatic ties have been restored in all but name." (Reagan with Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz at the White House in 1984)
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Post by gambit on Dec 31, 2006 12:14:17 GMT -5
General George S. Patton quotes: “No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.” Indeed...indeed...indeed! I am a bit angry since I had a whole response to some points in this threat, but when I hit preview it closed my whole window. I will take it as if something was insisting I don't (not that it was bad or anything). These are questions for anyone to answer, not just Engin. So, please keep it in the context of what the questions are asking. They do not attack religion nor do they provoke a religious response. Look at them as simple reality check type questions. Do you think the area, or the world, would be better if we (US military) left right now? Forget the brainwashing the media may have on us all, just answer this with logic on both realms that if we leave will terrorism keep going, or do you think it'll die out? What should be done to end it once and for all?Now these answers should not be based on what has been done in the past, but what should be done now in YOUR reasoning. Bob, we have to talk about something, right?
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Post by gambit on Dec 31, 2006 12:33:32 GMT -5
so what is the solution?Iraqies killing eachother till no more people in Iraq?Saddam was killing people who did not obey him,but Iraqies were not killing eachother at that time.now it is great that no more Saddam in Iraq,but the things are more uncontrolable.Shiites,Sunnies and Americans they all killing eachother everyday.i agree with you guys about Saddam was criminal and his ways was wrong but when you finish his dictatorship you must also bring a better alternative that "WORKS" in reality.what works for you may not work for others.more US military stays over there more US soldiers will die without any doubt.i understand that US wants to complite what it started but it really seems like not working.tens of people dies everyday,let us not forget that most of the people that dies are the innocents who were supposed to be saved by the intention of operation iraqy freedom. you are right to think that most of these killings are happenning in Iraqies themselves because of being part of different religious groups but these facts should have known before doing such a military movement. It is the same case over and over, it'll be a "damned if we do damned if we don't" situation. If we were to have left right after Saddam was eliminated from power we would have been looked at as a nation who starts campaigns and doesn't finish them. Now that we have stayed behind to instill a government the majority of the people want we are still looked at in the same manner. You see, the other day on Oprah (yeah, I caught a piece of it) when Oprah was interviewing Barack Obama (US presidential candidate possibility) on the region of Darfur. When the numbers of genocide were realized the instant response was, "We need to do something about this!" Now, this is no different than Rwanda during the Clinton administration. He didn't step in when needed and thousands upon thousands were slaughtered. Finally, something was done and the lax of Clinton NOT doing anything eventually got swept under the rug, but the fact remains that people are wanting us to go to Darfur and yet not to Iraq. Is there a difference when you factor in there are innocent people dying?
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Post by enginterzi on Dec 31, 2006 12:34:29 GMT -5
Allen,
first of all thank you for the calm reaction unlike somebody's.from one side i agree with you but from another side i know for sure that USA have supported Saddam when Saddam was the same dictator who was using Chemicals against Iranians that was the target of USA.what i do not agree is these to be used as reasons to occupy Iraq by the same party of US government that used to ignore the crimes of Saddam.let us be objective and confess that Saddam was ok when he was evil against Iran but he became as a bad man when he did not listen USA anymore.
the subject is Saddam and his wrong doings,so no need to generalise the subject with the world politics of USA is right or wrong.Saddam deserved to die but please see the truth that this man was supported by USA while he was using chemicals against Iran.do not say that USA did not support his chemical use because the meaning of supporting is not the words but the acts.the whole world knew that he was doing these crimes but USA still was giving him all he need against Iran.
once again,American nation and American politics are not same thing on my eyes.and i find US politics in middle east as wrong.this does not make me an anti American as some people tried time to time to bring anger on me.none of you knows what is in my heart except GOD and myself.there are Americans that disagree with Bush's strategies and they are as American as any of you.
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Post by Austin Slater on Dec 31, 2006 12:45:53 GMT -5
This should put to rest the idea that Saddam wasnt a muslim as it describes his last words before his execution: Saddam appeared to smile at those taunting him from below the gallows. He said they were not showing manhood.
Then Saddam began reciting the "Shahada," a Muslim prayer that says there is no god but God and Muhammad is his messenger, according to an unabridged copy of the same tape, apparently shot with a camera phone and posted on a Web site.
Saddam made it to midway through his second recitation of the verse. His last word was Muhammad.
Also my responses were calm it was yours that got out of hand. Below is my thoughts about Allens questions:
Do you think the area, or the world, would be better if we (US military) left right now? I think it would be far worse if the US military left now. We have to finish the job that we set out to do. A govt. has to be established and a military to protect it and the Iraqi people.
Forget the brainwashing the media may have on us all, just answer this with logic on both realms that if we leave will terrorism keep going, or do you think it'll die out? I think Terrorism will keep going and get worse not better. They will think the US is weak and cant finish a job.
What should be done to end it once and for all? Im not really sure to be honest.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Dec 31, 2006 12:48:06 GMT -5
[ Do you think the area, or the world, would be better if we (US military) left right now? Forget the brainwashing the media may have on us all, just answer this with logic on both realms that if we leave will terrorism keep going, or do you think it'll die out? What should be done to end it once and for all?1. No 2. It will continue if not get worse and spread 3. iran
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Post by enginterzi on Dec 31, 2006 12:48:25 GMT -5
Allen,
you would not be damned for not occupying Iraq.you know better that majority of the world did not support this operation even though US has put a lot of pressure on them by using it's economical and political power.maybe USA should have done this to Saddam 20 years ago when he was actually applying all those crimes against Iranians,Shiites and Kurds instead of visiting and shaking his hand or inviting Tariq Aziz to the white house,or supporting him by military equipments?
anyways,i just feel so much pain in me to see those people are killing eachother and it is a shame for whole mankind.yes i felt the same pain when 9-11 happenned and when Israel Used Illegal Cluster Bombs In Lebanon.
i wish that no one would take another's life that is given by GOD.i believe that every person should have a happy family life as being someone whose parents got divorced,when 7 years old.
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Post by Ste Melling on Dec 31, 2006 12:51:57 GMT -5
you are right to think that most of these killings are happenning in Iraqies themselves because of being part of different religious groups How can these people claim to be religious when they are breaking one of gods commandments "THOU SHALL NOT KILL"
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Post by gambit on Dec 31, 2006 12:56:04 GMT -5
Allen, first of all thank you for the calm reaction unlike somebody's.from one side i agree with you but from another side i know for sure that USA have supported Saddam when Saddam was the same dictator who was using Chemicals against Iranians that was the target of USA. I understand that and that is where I differ with my government, yet support our presence over there. We should stay out of other people's business. On the same token I think we should fight the fight on the origin sand instead of our own. When we supported Afghanistan during their war with Russia, we supplied weapons and intelligence only to fight, at a later date, against what we taught and gave them. France - we defended them (What on Earth would be said about us if we didn't) only to be pissed on by them now-a-days. Will this be the same thing with Iraq? No one knows for sure. We only hope hindsight doesn't play a factor here.
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Post by enginterzi on Dec 31, 2006 13:02:47 GMT -5
This should put to rest the idea that Saddam wasnt a muslim as it describes his last words before his execution: Saddam appeared to smile at those taunting him from below the gallows. He said they were not showing manhood. Then Saddam began reciting the "Shahada," a Muslim prayer that says there is no god but God and Muhammad is his messenger, according to an unabridged copy of the same tape, apparently shot with a camera phone and posted on a Web site. Saddam made it to midway through his second recitation of the verse. His last word was Muhammad. Also my responses were calm it was yours that got out of hand. Below is my thoughts about Allens questions: Do you think the area, or the world, would be better if we (US military) left right now? I think it would be far worse if the US military left now. We have to finish the job that we set out to do. A govt. has to be established and a military to protect it and the Iraqi people. Forget the brainwashing the media may have on us all, just answer this with logic on both realms that if we leave will terrorism keep going, or do you think it'll die out? I think Terrorism will keep going and get worse not better. They will think the US is weak and cant finish a job. What should be done to end it once and for all? Im not really sure to be honest. no body said that Saddam did not have faith in Islam.he believed in GOD but did not do good works.he was a sinful man and he did not have Islamic regime.i live in Turkey that has Muslim population but we are not under Islamic regime either. protecting Iraqi people?Austin,please,Shiites or Sunnies will not work with USA.they have been fighting against US soldiers by killing and being killed.you are now fighting against people that you talk about protecting.shiites are supported by Iran and sunnis are the loyalists of Saddam. you can only work with Kurds that want to have their own country,but none of the neighbor countries will let this.because Iran,Turkey and Syria have Kurd populations in them and a Kurdistan will cause rebellions in these countries (we already have this problem and over 30.000 people died in the fights against the PKK terrorist groups).
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Post by enginterzi on Dec 31, 2006 13:05:50 GMT -5
you are right to think that most of these killings are happenning in Iraqies themselves because of being part of different religious groups How can these peolpe claim to be religious when they are breaking one of gods commandments "THOU SHALL NOT KILL" are they the only ones in the world that believe in GOD's commandments and are killing other people?but yes i agree with you,and i will never understand this either.but you must know that in the history millions of people killed eachother for "so called" religious reasons.
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Post by Ste Melling on Dec 31, 2006 13:16:42 GMT -5
How can these peolpe claim to be religious when they are breaking one of gods commandments "THOU SHALL NOT KILL" are they the only ones in the world that believe in GOD's commandments and are killing other people?but yes i agree with you,and i will never understand this either.but you must know that in the history millions of people killed eachother for "so called" religious reasons. Engin, thank you for your reply its something i can never understand myself
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