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Post by Scott Latella on Apr 13, 2007 8:49:03 GMT -5
Both fighters had 2 phases. The early Clay (pre-war) and the early Tyson (Cus) would have been a fight of the century.Clay's speed and foot movement vs Tyson's defensive and punches in bunches. While Clay became Ali and was still a great fighter , he took more punches and just wasn't the same after 3 years off. We all know that Tyson became lazy with his training and out of ring distractions took him out of that upper level and he soon became a one trick pony.
Clay vs Tyson (1) : Split Decision (Clay) Ali Vs Tyson (2): Ali by TKO 8th
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Post by Tim Clark on Apr 13, 2007 19:25:07 GMT -5
I think Ali would win if he made it through the first few rounds, but as long as Tyson is standing he has chance.
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 14, 2007 20:22:45 GMT -5
I think Ali wins easily. If they fought 10 times, Tyson would probably catch him with a BOMB a couple times and win but I think Ali would absolutely destroy him the other 8 times. Remember, Tyson came in at a time when there were no great fighters. He took over for Larry Holmes who also had no great fighters during his reign. It wasn't their fault. They beat everyone there but there just wasn't any. Name me 3 really good fighters that Mike Tyson beat during THEIR PRIME. Ali would have made it a really boring fight as he stayed away from Tyson and danced and danced and danced and popped Tyson with a jab and then danced some more. Tyson would have been about to explode by about the 4th round and become careless. Ali would have had his eyes closed up within 6 or 7 rounds. Look at what happened to Tyson once he lost just a little of the SPEED that he had. He got rocked by everybody! A great fighter (Ali) would have made him look like that in his prime. This one is a no brainer for me. Ali in a landslide.
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Post by Carey Nick on Apr 15, 2007 11:26:58 GMT -5
Ali by TKO around the 9th, or Tyson quits. Ali could not have KO'd Tyson. Good point Casey. I agree with the Ko, but lets look back to 1985 or 1986 when when Tyson koed Trevor Burbrick (spelling) and Bone crusher Smith. The whole key to Tyson is who's his corner man. Early in the career Ali vs tyson....Tyson after Tyson changes corner men....Ali.......
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Post by TK on Apr 15, 2007 16:02:32 GMT -5
the question was prime vs prime.....
there is little respect towards Tyson because he became an animal.....but he was a great boxer before....very agressive....and again i say as a fan...the Buster douglas match changed a lot....after that match Tyson was never the same.
I also think Holmes was a great boxer as well...but like Rick said they didn't have as big of challenges in their prime......
Ali vs holyfield in their prime may have been Epic as well.
TK
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Post by Bob Brown on Apr 15, 2007 19:51:29 GMT -5
Todd,
My Analogy about the Tyson vs Douglas fight was not to say that Douglas was better or Douglas won. It was just to point out that Douglas's style "Stick and Move" is what could beat Tyson. I believe that Ali was a 100 times better then Douglas at the "Stick and Move" and would beat Tyson in a Boxing match.
To me its the same as Leanord vs Hagler....In the street - Hagler.....In the ring - Leanord
Tyson vs Ali in the street - Tyson...........In the ring Ali.
BUT I would still of loved to be able to see that fight and would gladly by the beer if I lost.
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Post by Mark Evans on Apr 17, 2007 14:44:54 GMT -5
Bill,
you're not being real here...watch that fight again....i watched it live as a Tyson Fan and beleive me...Buster was on the ground much longer than 10 seconds.....watch it again and see if you can say the same...I will admit Tyson wasn't prepared for that fight as he should have ...but he still knocked buster down and out.....
TK[/quote]
This past Friday I had the pleasure of working a pro show as the knock down time keeper. I was kept very busy which is great for us fight fans. Last night ESPN classic had Tyson-Douglas. I recorded and counted 3 different times the knock down which occured in the 8th round. The count was apox 1/2 second off. In other words it was right on. It was however not a flash knock down. It was a brutal upper cut. Douglas boxed better than he ever had that night, he controlled the fight taking the best Tyson offered and fired back fast hard punches.
Clay pre draft, Ali afterwards would schooled Tyson. He was faster, hit harder and avoided being hit at a much higher skill level than Douglas.
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Post by guy on Apr 17, 2007 15:00:49 GMT -5
Do you all not remember the Tyson vs Buster Douglas fight. If you want to get technical...if you really watched the fight Tyson knocked Buster down for 12 seconds.around round 3 or 4 ..the refs failed on the 10 count ....that ref changed boxing history.....anyone has this fight on video watch it..& you'll see Tyson really won that fight. TK I have it, your wrong. Tyson got his ass kicked
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Post by guy on Apr 17, 2007 15:03:17 GMT -5
PS. Tyson was too dumb to win . And once people knew to extend him somehow past 3 rounds he was just an average fighter 4 rounds and beyond
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Post by TK on Apr 18, 2007 19:16:29 GMT -5
Tyson was too dumb to win . And once people knew to extend him somehow past 3 rounds he was just an average fighter 4 rounds and beyond
i'm sorry...i may be wrong about the count but to say Tyson was average.....it took more than an average man to beat him......Douglas was a fluke....he had one good fight...dedicated to the death of his mother......douglas after that was fat and out of shape and pi-ssed away his title.....Holyfield was next..and he by no means is average.....Tyson TKO'd quite a few boxers who wouldn't want to hear they were average......
I was a Tyson fan until he shamed the sport with his crap....he should rank heavily amongst the best..because now in this time...the training is harder the men are much stronger..the supplements are much better nad the money is bigger.......The guys back in the old days could not have went toe to toe with the boxers nowadays......same as many other sports.
in my opinion Ali or Clay could not have fought with the boxers now.....differnet times.
thats like the 69 cowboys vs 95 cowboys....
I want to see that video again of the douglas fight....."i still beleive"......just kiddin' Mark...i was young man who seen his hero fall,
are you sure it wasn't more than 10? still kiddin'
TK
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Post by Eli Maynard on Apr 19, 2007 10:58:36 GMT -5
I tend to disagree with you about the boxers of yesteryear being able to fight with the boxers of today. Your analogy of the Cowboys is not the same. Boxing was more glorified back in the earlier part of the century so better athletes went into boxing. Now the better athletes play football and basketball, so boxing gets the second tier athletes... not saying that the greats are second tier, but boxing like baseball is much more diluted now than it was then.
I do agree with the belief that supplementation and diet is better now, but saying that Ali could not have fought with the fighters now is preposterous. Ali fought Foreman in his prime who came along and won the Heavyweight title well past his prime. Today's boxers are not as polished, there footwork is not near as good..... Take Jermain Taylor he is the middleweight champ of the world but I don't think he would beat Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, or Duran. And I love JT being from Arkansas, but today's fighters from middleweight above are not as fundamentally sound as yesteryears boxers.
Tyson was not just average, he was very, very good, but he came along at a time when the heavyweight division was down and he did what he had to do, but when he encountered someone who stood up to him he folded. He would be in my top ten but I grew up watching him so I may be biased.
Eli 1 John 4:10
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Post by guy on Apr 19, 2007 13:36:07 GMT -5
Sorry , Check Tysons Performances after the Douglas fight. All Mediocre and any good fighter that took him past round 3 or 4 prooved it and my theory. And Holyfield was past his prime when they met
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Post by guy on Apr 19, 2007 13:38:54 GMT -5
Tyson , wouldnt beat in there Prime Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Dempsey, Walcott, maybe Liston
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 19, 2007 14:40:14 GMT -5
Sorry , Check Tysons Performances after the Douglas fight. All Mediocre and any good fighter that took him past round 3 or 4 prooved it and my theory. And Holyfield was past his prime when they met Tyson was not in his prime either when he and holyfield met, Tyson was and will be the best fighter pre jail sentence of course, after he returned he was a spectacle not a fighter, he scored some wins true, but he accomplished things ALi never did before he was sent to prision...... Tyson like ali had to stages to his career, the Iron Mike that knocked everyone out from 1986-1991 then there is the bizarre, media side show tyson we have seen since aproximately 1994....those 3 years in prison ruined him, not to mention the other outside negative events that have troubled mike the last 10 or so years.....
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Post by Carlos Beltran on Apr 19, 2007 14:40:21 GMT -5
Tyson was the MAN while being controlled by his former coach & mentor. So Ali had no chance in taking one of Tyson combo hit & Ali only chance is to stay away & jab but sooner or later Tyson would go ahead & connect & that would be for the BUTTERFLY with a BENT STINGER!! Remember Tyson career went down after jail & death of his mentor & Buster was a joke but got lucky & Holyfield if we kept useing his head bumps on me & the ref didn't say anything, I might of bit him too. (Holyfield had Tyson # anyway)
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