Michael Moore - True American

[Bob Brown]

Allen,

I hate when I can't sleep. How have you been?

I will of course have to see the whole film. BUT In the short clip I saw. He was asking for the "Same health care, No better No worse". I think the overall point is not about the prisoners getting better healthcare. Its just that the 9/11 workers did not get any.

Now, I understand there are many issues to deal with trying to better our system of healthcare. BUT I really believe his point is our system is getting worse and not better.

I have been in countries were they had universal healthcare, free for all citizens. There income taxes were much higher.

I believe there is a solution to every problem. IMO our solutions are not working and the driving force is, as always, the DOLLAR. This is the overall problem.

I saw Micheal M. on a talk show. He said something that I totally agree with. US people, in general, are brought up to think about "Me" and not about "We". AND it should be the other way. If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

[Ryan Thames]

bobbrown said:

I saw Micheal M. on a talk show. He said something that I totally agree with. US people, in general, are brought up to think about "Me" and not about "We". AND it should be the other way. If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

But you gotta admit...thinking about me and not we is a far more natural human instinct. and it isnt the governments place to control how we feel or look at life .

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

gambit said:

Erick, I was not asking you if this country was built off of greed. I was asking you wasn't this country built on free enterprise and not having a system where everyone had the opportunity to make their own wealth, instead of waiting for handouts? Todays world is nothing but a big ball of people wanting something without having to work for it.

Also, I agree with you about supporting our own people instead of other nations; I have said that MANY times, but I do not think our people should be allowed to abuse the financial subsidies in place for the ones who are, indeed, in need of that helping hand.

Distributing funds to school systems is one thing, contributing to the pockets of drug dealers, deadbeat parents, and drug addicts. The list goes on and on.

The argument against socialist policy is that there is no way to 100% prevent "drug dealers, deadbeat parents, and drug addicts" from receiving the same support as those that are truly in need, but isn't it better to err on the side of giving than to abandon those that truly need the support? The majority of this country, and conservatives in particular, claim to believe in the "judeo-christian" principles this country was founded on...wouldn't a christian want to help the neediest, even if the occasional welcher slips in?

And by the way, free enterprise can exist in a socialist society. Countries like Canada, France, and Australia are considered free enterprising, modern first would nations just like the united states, but they are socialist nations.

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

gambit said:

I agree about the lack of medical treatment our people get compared those of other countries; however, you should be just as outraged at the prisoners in our country who get the same exact treatment you are saying inmates in Cuba gets.

You didn't aim this comment at me, but I want to comment on it anyways. I agree that inmates in the united states are too pampered. Free healthcare, well rounded meals, cable, fitness centers, etc. There is no fear in going to jail, other than having to deal with "Bubba". The jail itself is a resort. Yet another facet of our society that needs reform.

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

bobbrown said:

I saw Micheal M. on a talk show. He said something that I totally agree with. US people, in general, are brought up to think about "Me" and not about "We". AND it should be the other way. If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

This very simple description pinpoints the EXACT difference between capitalism ("me") and socialism ("we").

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

ryanthames said:

bobbrown said:

I saw Micheal M. on a talk show. He said something that I totally agree with. US people, in general, are brought up to think about "Me" and not about "We". AND it should be the other way. If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

But you gotta admit...thinking about me and not we is a far more natural human instinct. and it isnt the governments place to control how we feel or look at life .

This is true. We are a country that takes pride in our freedom. I guess it's just disappointing that a country that takes such pride in its judeo-christian values would abandon its most impoverished people just because it's instinct to choose "me" over "we".

What ever happened to "WWJD"?

[Bob Brown]

I wake up this morning and the movie "John Q" is on. This was a movie about the problem with our healthcare system. Micheal M. is not the only one who thinks our healthcare system has major problems.


Ryan,

You are correct about human nature. BUT that does not make it right. And you are also right that it is not the Goverments place to control how we feel. BUT It is how I feel.


Think more about "We"

[gambit]

bobbrown said:

Allen,

I hate when I can't sleep. How have you been?

I will of course have to see the whole film. BUT In the short clip I saw. He was asking for the "Same health care, No better No worse". I think the overall point is not about the prisoners getting better healthcare. Its just that the 9/11 workers did not get any.

We have been well. How about Tracy and yourself? Staying busy?

The prisoners in our country and abroad get better treatment than our own citizens, but so do the illegal aliens. It sucks, in the realm of receiving benefits, to actually be FROM this country.
The 9/11 workers should get lifetime free healthcare.

bobbrown said:

If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

To a point, yes, but not as a whole. If 'we' were to always give than receive, then the only one who benefits is the government. Now hasn't everyone (the country) been crying about too much government only to now want more of their delegating of our monies?
I would prefer to donate than to have the government do that. NOW, if everyone gave, independently, this country (world) would be better off. In this respect...I agree with you and Erick.

[gambit]

erickszczap said:

The argument against socialist policy is that there is no way to 100% prevent "drug dealers, deadbeat parents, and drug addicts" from receiving the same support as those that are truly in need, but isn't it better to err on the side of giving than to abandon those that truly need the support? The majority of this country, and conservatives in particular, claim to believe in the "judeo-christian" principles this country was founded on...wouldn't a christian want to help the neediest, even if the occasional welcher slips in?

And by the way, free enterprise can exist in a socialist society. Countries like Canada, France, and Australia are considered free enterprising, modern first would nations just like the united states, but they are socialist nations.

That is my point, you can decrease the amount of illegals, welchers, drug addicts/dealers and deadbeats by causing them to take such things as drug tests, citizenship status, and more stringent reviews in their lifestyles.

Therefore, if you are living off of MY money, you should be subjected to such screening, thus weeding out more of what is straining this nation of the monies appropriated to said programs.


Take Bank of America, for instance, they are GIVING illegal aliens free money under the assumption they will pay it back..when we all know that more than 90+ % will not. Why would they. This is no different when dealing with citizens doing illegal activities listed above. Put it in this context and say that everyone is equal if they are receiving something GOOD for nothing and be expected to follow the rules.

[gambit]

erickszczap said:

bobbrown said:

I saw Micheal M. on a talk show. He said something that I totally agree with. US people, in general, are brought up to think about "Me" and not about "We". AND it should be the other way. If we spent more time thinking about "We" and less about "Me". Our society would be better off.

This very simple description pinpoints the EXACT difference between capitalism ("me") and socialism ("we").

This theory can and does work under certain circumstances, but not always.

Erick, ...I have a mortgage I need help in paying, would it be too much to ask for you to send me some assistance to help me pay towards that? I am not asking for much, just a couple of hundred bucks from you. I know you work hard for your money and in that respect would feel great in lending that hand.


Thanks...I feel better already. I know I will be taken care from now on. I like this way of thinking...






j/k buddy. But that is how society has become - too dependent.

Just ask SOME of the people in New Orleans before Katrina came through.

[Ryan Thames]

and oh yea....socialism is synonymous with communism....i agree with allen


there is only one issue that i have found to ever disagree with allen on....hee hee

[Bob Brown]

I will first say that I do not fully understand the intricate details of what Capitalism, Communism, or Socialism are.

I will say that the real problem with any of the above is the corruption that falls into the leaders and enforcement agencies of all of them. It seems to me that corrupting a single person (Communism) is much easier than a group of people (Capitalism).

I would love to have a series of changes in our system of government and politics and enforcement agency to rid them of corruption. Although I realize I am dreaming.

[Bob Brown]

In any event, it has been nice reading everyones opinion on this.

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

gambit said:

erickszczap said:

The argument against socialist policy is that there is no way to 100% prevent "drug dealers, deadbeat parents, and drug addicts" from receiving the same support as those that are truly in need, but isn't it better to err on the side of giving than to abandon those that truly need the support? The majority of this country, and conservatives in particular, claim to believe in the "judeo-christian" principles this country was founded on...wouldn't a christian want to help the neediest, even if the occasional welcher slips in?

And by the way, free enterprise can exist in a socialist society. Countries like Canada, France, and Australia are considered free enterprising, modern first would nations just like the united states, but they are socialist nations.

That is my point, you can decrease the amount of illegals, welchers, drug addicts/dealers and deadbeats by causing them to take such things as drug tests, citizenship status, and more stringent reviews in their lifestyles.

Therefore, if you are living off of MY money, you should be subjected to such screening, thus weeding out more of what is straining this nation of the monies appropriated to said programs.


Take Bank of America, for instance, they are GIVING illegal aliens free money under the assumption they will pay it back..when we all know that more than 90+ % will not. Why would they. This is no different when dealing with citizens doing illegal activities listed above. Put it in this context and say that everyone is equal if they are receiving something GOOD for nothing and be expected to follow the rules.

Couldn't agree more. The problem is you went from a discussion of government programs to private "free enterprise" when you jumped on Bank of America in that last paragraph. The downside of capitalism and free enterprise is that greed becomes a virtue, and BofA is simply doing what it thinks will make it the most money. Can you blame them? This country encourages such behavior. And guess what, no matter how much we gripe about it here or CNN and Fox News calls them out for maybe a week, they're still going to get away with it and turn a profit from it, and it will become an accepted practice, just like the price gouging that oil companies are doing. We moan and groan all day long but no real action is ever taken. Such is life in america, as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[Erick "Zap" Szczap]

gambit said:

erickszczap said:

This very simple description pinpoints the EXACT difference between capitalism ("me") and socialism ("we").

This theory can and does work under certain circumstances, but not always.

Erick, ...I have a mortgage I need help in paying, would it be too much to ask for you to send me some assistance to help me pay towards that? I am not asking for much, just a couple of hundred bucks from you. I know you work hard for your money and in that respect would feel great in lending that hand.


Thanks...I feel better already. I know I will be taken care from now on. I like this way of thinking...






j/k buddy. But that is how society has become - too dependent.

Just ask SOME of the people in New Orleans before Katrina came through.

I know what you mean, but I'm not the right person to ask. Give Oprah a call.

;D