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Post by gambit on Jun 15, 2007 21:30:22 GMT -5
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 15, 2007 21:45:44 GMT -5
Based solely on Glenn Beck's "rave" review, I agree that "Sicko" is sickening and Michael Moore should be ashamed of himself.
HOWEVER
The issue of healthcare in this country IS worth discussing, and I don't agree with Beck when he says that this county is far superior to other countries when it comes to the issue. Perhaps we have the cream of the crop healthcare, but that's not the issue. The issue is availability i.e. universal healthcare for all citizens.
But back to the video, it sounds like pure rubbish.
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Post by gambit on Jun 15, 2007 22:01:17 GMT -5
Before you start to say you would like universal health care for all citizen, you have to remember that you and I would be paying for all of that. Whether or not we had a surplus of funds, you STILL have to factor in the amount of illegal aliens who are getting medical care on our dime.
Add that up and see where it leaves us.
Beck's point, when referring to the health care, was to the effect that America has far better health care system when Cuba cannot even supply a band-aid if needed.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 15, 2007 22:13:11 GMT -5
Cuba shouldn't even be part of the discussion. It's the most absurd part of the whole thing. But in terms of universal healthcare, I understand that we'd be paying for it. We'd all be paying for it. I'd have no problem with that, but I'd expect anyone receiving that healthcare to be an american citizen, bottom line. No freebees for illegals.
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Post by gambit on Jun 15, 2007 22:44:36 GMT -5
I agree - no freebies. However, you know as well as I do the illegals are still going to be supported if socialism prevails. Cut it anyway you'd like, that is how it will be.
I also think anyone who is receiving governmental benefits should take a drug test. If I am required to take one to work and pay for those benefits, the person receiving them should too.
For those who do not know, socialism is the theory that lands, industry and the likes should belong to the people as a whole and governed by the government and not owned by private owners (capitalism). Socialism is synonymous with Communism
Should some entities be minutely managed by the government? Perhaps.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 15, 2007 22:55:49 GMT -5
Socialism is not synonymous with communism. Socialism is halfway between capitalism and communism. It's not a fascist state of total government control like communism, but it's not an "everybody for himself" free-for-all like capitalism. It's a hands-on government attempt to balance the quality of life amongst citizens, rather than hands-off government that results in an incredible imbalance of wealth.
I just wanted to clarify that. I'm not 100% in favor of a true socialist society, but I am in favor of universal healthcare if handled properly. At the same time, I have virtually no confidence that our incompetent government could handle it properly.
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Post by gambit on Jun 16, 2007 6:23:45 GMT -5
Socialism is not synonymous with communism. Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. Communism - a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. Capitalism - An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labor for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated. The U.S. is a capitalistic system. Source: www.dictionary.comDo you really want to put your future in the hands of greedy politicians controling your money? It's not a fascist state of total government control like communism, but it's not an "everybody for himself" free-for-all like capitalism. You mean these companies which are lead by capitalists are only run by capitalists? I mean, do they not employ people to make their wealth? What happened to Free Enterprise? Isn't that how America was built? If you were a business owner would you want the government to tax you to the point of it being senseless to be in business just so a lazy person could live off the rewards of your efforts? Are there people who truly need a boost in their life to get a foothold in the door? Sure there are, but there are also those jobs illegals aliens are doing because "Americans" won't do. I've had to do them. ...It's a hands-on government attempt to balance the quality of life amongst citizens, rather than hands-off government that results in an incredible imbalance of wealth. Balance the quality of life amongst citizens? Erick, go to the slums of your city and look at what you see. You will see where the majority of the people (not a specific race) enjoying the benefits of yours and my hard effort while they ride around in their "tricked out" vehicles on 24's while their families are starving. I see it all the time and I for one do not want to foot the bill for it. Now don't get me wrong...not all who ride rides like that are whelching off the government, but you get my point. __My point is, I own a business and if I fall on hard times I do not ask anyone for handouts. I go and look for work - work to be paid for. People need to do that instead of EXPECTING a handout. Sorry for the extended response, I just saw a lot of points I wanted to touch on.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 16, 2007 8:58:47 GMT -5
Do you really want to put your future in the hands of greedy politicians controling your money? No. That's the sad part, though. Our government is so corrupt that we the people do not trust them to handle things like this. It's a shame. In essence, what you're asking me is whether or not I agree that this country was built on greed. And yes, I agree. I know what you're saying, but I believe that it is a society's responsibility to look after its people who are most in need. This country gives more money to starving nations than any other country. I'd rather see that money spent on programs to help out our homeless right here in our own country. I'd imagine you'd prefer to cut back on what we give to other nations and in turn give corporations tax breaks that would, in theory, result in a more profitable business that would, in turn, result in more jobs. Or perhaps you'd prefer to just have across the board tax cuts instead? In either event, I'd imagine that's how you'd redistribute the money we'd save if we'd stop giving so much support to other nations. I, on the other hand, would take that same money and redistribute it via our own social programs, starting with our school systems.
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Post by Bob Brown on Jun 16, 2007 17:36:27 GMT -5
Without typing all my feelings about our Goverment. Because my fingers would fall OFF.
Beck is an IDIOT who does not get what SICKO was about
And I would buy Micheal Moore a beer anyday.
SICKO was not about Healthcare is was about the System. OUR SYSTEM SUCKS.
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Jun 16, 2007 17:46:09 GMT -5
What is SICKO about?
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Post by Bob Brown on Jun 16, 2007 17:51:05 GMT -5
Its a documentary about The US healthcare System and the problems with it.
It hits the big screen next month.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 16, 2007 19:21:50 GMT -5
All I know of "Sicko" is what Beck said about it. Based solely on that snippet, I'd agree that it's absurd to use 9/11 firefighters and Cuba to make a point about healthcare. Aside from that, I agree with you that that healthcare in the united states, like many things in the united states, needs fixing.
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Post by Bob Brown on Jun 16, 2007 20:00:39 GMT -5
Micheal was trying to make a point about how 9/11 non-govermental, volunteer rescue workers that had long term medical problems from there efforts at 9/11 could not get medical care from our goverment. YET the prisoners held for the acts of 9/11 that are being held in Cuba are getting FREE and complete US healthcare.
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Post by Erick "Zap" Szczap on Jun 16, 2007 21:07:02 GMT -5
Ahhhhh.
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Post by gambit on Jun 16, 2007 23:17:35 GMT -5
Erick, I was not asking you if this country was built off of greed. I was asking you wasn't this country built on free enterprise and not having a system where everyone had the opportunity to make their own wealth, instead of waiting for handouts? Todays world is nothing but a big ball of people wanting something without having to work for it.
Also, I agree with you about supporting our own people instead of other nations; I have said that MANY times, but I do not think our people should be allowed to abuse the financial subsidies in place for the ones who are, indeed, in need of that helping hand.
Distributing funds to school systems is one thing, contributing to the pockets of drug dealers, deadbeat parents, and drug addicts. The list goes on and on.
______
Bob,
Michael Moore has given no one any reason to believe what he is doing is honorable or beneficial to anyone of this country. His intent is a witch hunt for Bush...yet again!
I agree about the lack of medical treatment our people get compared those of other countries; however, you should be just as outraged at the prisoners in our country who get the same exact treatment you are saying inmates in Cuba gets. On the same scale of things I would support Michael Moore on his mission, but otherwise no, since he has given me no other reason to believe he out for nothing more than a lynching.
Furthermore, if those inmates in Cuba didn't get the best treatment they would file a complaint and the human rights activists would be all over it. Hell, it's happened already!!
No, I would not buy him a beer, but I would buy the 9/11 workers many.
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