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Post by David Owens on Apr 19, 2011 15:19:36 GMT -5
ya if we were to do something like that i would say James idea of a overall class fo the southeast would make for interesting conversation
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Post by TK on Apr 19, 2011 17:50:52 GMT -5
Exactly my point......
Multiple rankings helps make it clearer who the man is!
Like I've watched Rivas pull up to 220 class before and still place in all classes he pulled! I think this deserves some reward.....rankings wise.
For guys to get a ranking at a lighter weight then pull heavier leaving their old weight behind doesn't . Avants in LA does the same.
I think if you maintain your present weight and pull up, there should be some recognition of that!
I'm for multiple ranking, if my fat ass was 220, I'd be trying to dominate
220 / 242 / 242+
Think about it
TK
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Post by TK on Apr 19, 2011 17:52:10 GMT -5
ya if we were to do something like that i would say James idea of a overall class fo the southeast would make for interesting conversation I have a FL overall. |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 19, 2011 18:31:24 GMT -5
Exactly my point...... Multiple rankings helps make it clearer who the man is! Like I've watched Rivas pull up to 220 class before and still place in all classes he pulled! I think this deserves some reward.....rankings wise. For guys to get a ranking at a lighter weight then pull heavier leaving their old weight behind doesn't . Avants in LA does the same. I think if you maintain your present weight and pull up, there should be some recognition of that! I'm for multiple ranking, if my fat ass was 220, I'd be trying to dominate 220 / 242 / 242+ Think about it TK youre right they deserve recognition, but the headache of rankings will severly multiply with ranking multiple classes, we are voting on it, seems good enough if later we do an overall ranking these pullers will get recognition |
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Post by TK on Apr 19, 2011 18:50:41 GMT -5
Exactly my point...... Multiple rankings helps make it clearer who the man is! Like I've watched Rivas pull up to 220 class before and still place in all classes he pulled! I think this deserves some reward.....rankings wise. For guys to get a ranking at a lighter weight then pull heavier leaving their old weight behind doesn't . Avants in LA does the same. I think if you maintain your present weight and pull up, there should be some recognition of that! I'm for multiple ranking, if my fat ass was 220, I'd be trying to dominate 220 / 242 / 242+ Think about it TK youre right they deserve recognition, but the headache of rankings will severly multiply with ranking multiple classes, we are voting on it, seems good enough if later we do an overall ranking these pullers will get recognition It's a headache I'm willing to deal with.  |
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Post by Karen Bean on Apr 19, 2011 21:13:31 GMT -5
David could you please explain this to me? Are you saying that in AAA if you slip past 10-2 it's an automatic loss? As far as I know or have been told of AAA rules(which I dont swear to be an expert on having only pulled with them a few events) any slip in a losing position is a loss regaurdless if it is intentional or not, ......10-2 being simply the definition of a losing position, I am not positive about any small variations to the rule that have to do with hand control or other variables, just that to my knowledge the 10-2 term simply describes the losing poition 10-2 does not describe the losing position, 10-2 describes the neutral area and is only used as a reference, not exact. Slip in a losing position is a loss if intentional. Slip in a losing position may also be a loss depending on numerous factors. Apparently you've been told AAA rules by the wrong person. As a suggestion, take a look at our rules, they're on our website, and you should understand them better. Any questions, shoot me an email: armsport@bellsouth.net |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 19, 2011 22:02:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry I was thinking of the 2/3rds rule that describes the losing position, which is used by both sets
>>>
13. Slipping grip when their arm and hand are in the losing position. Losing position is determined when the arm is below two-thirds of the way to the pin pad and hand is not in an offensive grip.
<<<
so by this I am understanding that if you slip from a losing position without hand control it is a intentional slip and a loss?
what if both pullers have equall ground on the hands, for instance both are top rolling and climbing each others fingers and they slip belowe 2/3 of the way down?
I personally don't see the need for more than one set of rules and since WAF is pretty much standard I use it to train and to teach my guys since eventually they all expect to pull at Unifieds if not Worlds, this is the reason I voted WAF and not because I think one set is superior to the other, I do however agree with the WAF centerline rule, and the equall pressure rule....although I was under the impression AAA had done away with having to attempt to match your opponants back pressure, is that the case or does that rule still apply?
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Post by Karen Bean on Apr 20, 2011 7:04:02 GMT -5
I'm sorry I was thinking of the 2/3rds rule that describes the losing position, which is used by both sets >>> 13. Slipping grip when their arm and hand are in the losing position. Losing position is determined when the arm is below two-thirds of the way to the pin pad and hand is not in an offensive grip. <<< so by this I am understanding that if you slip from a losing position without hand control it is a intentional slip and a loss? No, it is not necessarily a loss due to the fact that it may not be intentional. what if both pullers have equall ground on the hands, for instance both are top rolling and climbing each others fingers and they slip belowe 2/3 of the way down? That would be a strap match thenI personally don't see the need for more than one set of rules and since WAF is pretty much standard I use it to train and to teach my guys since eventually they all expect to pull at Unifieds if not Worlds, this is the reason I voted WAF and not because I think one set is superior to the other, I do however agree with the WAF centerline rule, and the equall pressure rule....although I was under the impression AAA had done away with having to attempt to match your opponants back pressure, is that the case or does that rule still apply? There is a huge difference in having to "attempt" to match your opponents back pressure instead of the play acting wet fish ordeal and "actually" having to match it. What seems to be completely overlooked is the fact that you must remain in the center of the table. If you and I are gripped up and you can't match my backpressure - physically can't not wet fishing - then I still can't pull you across the table because I have to be in the center in order for the match to start. |
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Post by Chuck Hoffman on Apr 20, 2011 10:10:16 GMT -5
Let me ask this question :
I had a match where the other puller was much faster but could not take me to the pin pad. So after the hit in which he brought me to the “ Losing Position” but not even close to touching the pad or even a parallel pin, I caught the hit and was bringing him back when he decides to bail . The Ref then gives him the win because I was in the losing position.
So my question is this , How can this be even remotely fair ? Many out there are capable of catching and stopping the hit without getting pinned , but if the other puller sells the slip quick enough he gets the win.. Would it not be better to go to the straps ?? Even without hand control some are able to make a match out it and regain a good position..
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Post by Matt "CHOP" Bertrand on Apr 20, 2011 14:17:39 GMT -5
against
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Post by David Owens on Apr 20, 2011 14:28:51 GMT -5
official motion FOR or AGAINST ranking pullers in multiple weight classes ........................ AGAINST 4-1, still need at least two votes to close this out |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 20, 2011 14:34:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry I was thinking of the 2/3rds rule that describes the losing position, which is used by both sets >>> 13. Slipping grip when their arm and hand are in the losing position. Losing position is determined when the arm is below two-thirds of the way to the pin pad and hand is not in an offensive grip. <<< so by this I am understanding that if you slip from a losing position without hand control it is a intentional slip and a loss? No, it is not necessarily a loss due to the fact that it may not be intentional. what if both pullers have equall ground on the hands, for instance both are top rolling and climbing each others fingers and they slip belowe 2/3 of the way down? That would be a strap match thenI personally don't see the need for more than one set of rules and since WAF is pretty much standard I use it to train and to teach my guys since eventually they all expect to pull at Unifieds if not Worlds, this is the reason I voted WAF and not because I think one set is superior to the other, I do however agree with the WAF centerline rule, and the equall pressure rule....although I was under the impression AAA had done away with having to attempt to match your opponants back pressure, is that the case or does that rule still apply? There is a huge difference in having to "attempt" to match your opponents back pressure instead of the play acting wet fish ordeal and "actually" having to match it. What seems to be completely overlooked is the fact that you must remain in the center of the table. If you and I are gripped up and you can't match my backpressure - physically can't not wet fishing - then I still can't pull you across the table because I have to be in the center in order for the match to start.this third item seems to completely contradict itself, so just so I'm clear I have to attempt to match my opponants backpressure but if I cannot (or dont want to) he cannot pull me over to his side of the table because then we would not be in the center of the table, so if I want to dead load I simply make a fony attemp at matching the backpressure and then from there I can dead load all I want? |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 20, 2011 14:50:17 GMT -5
2. LOSS OF GRIP
Loss of grip when a competitor is in a losing position will result in a foul, which will constitute a loss. Losing position will be determined by referee discretion as to arm and hand position on the table at the time of the slip.
The rules never get into what is an intentional slip
these are lsited as fouls but again does not get into what is intentional and what is not
12. Intentionally slipping grips.
13. Slipping grip when their arm and hand are in the losing position. Losing position is determined when the arm is below two-thirds of the way to the pin pad and hand is not in an offensive grip.
I also have a question about this
3. Failure to square shoulders after thirty second time lapse.
4. Failure to straighten wrists after thirty second time lapse.
5. Failure to line up in center of table after thirty second time lapse
so does this mean that before going into a refs/set grip someone is going to be given a foul for not adhering to one of these rules?
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Post by 'Stump' Burton on Apr 21, 2011 9:01:53 GMT -5
official motion FOR or AGAINST ranking pullers in multiple weight classes ........................ AGAINST 4-1, still need at least two votes to close this out Against |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 21, 2011 9:11:26 GMT -5
What does this have to do with rankings?
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