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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 2, 2011 10:39:55 GMT -5
We can break them down one by one if you like....
The we can discuss which would have a higher "nut job rating"
That might actually be fun lol
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Apr 2, 2011 10:52:10 GMT -5
I'm not calling anyone a nut job. I'm just saying that people believe what they are capable of believing. For instance that the world was flat at one time.
I'm betting there were religions that prayed to squirrels or something before the time of the Greek or Norse Gods. They were probably reasonable and intelligent people as well, but during that time they didn't know any better. My question is do you think that it's possible the current God and followers could be looked at the same way in the future?
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 2, 2011 11:01:32 GMT -5
If I believed it were possible then that would be an admission that I don't believe what I believe.
There are current religions today that I view with a pretty high nutjob rating.
Many of them were discussed on this board in the past.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Apr 2, 2011 11:13:27 GMT -5
If I believed it were possible then that would be an admission that I don't believe what I believe. There are current religions today that I view with a pretty high nutjob rating. Many of them were discussed on this board in the past. Naturally. I figured you'd say that, you kinda have to. Yeah I do agree that there are some pretty crazy religions now-a-days... What is the difference between those religions and yours? You have to admit that there are some pretty nutty things in the Bible. |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 2, 2011 11:37:17 GMT -5
There are some things in the bible one might raise an eye at. But of course only if you exclude An omnipotent God from the equation.
The difference in my faith from the others is that I have a personal relationship with my god.
An unnamed Muslim can come behind me and mock me for saying that.....
But you can't refute my individual and personal experiences.
I've never met your father.... I have never seen evidence of your fathers existence (other than you of course) but I CANNOT refute any claim of yours that says you have a personal relationship with him.
I believe my God is just as real as your father. And I believe an omnipotent fully loving God who is fully awesome knows he is awesome and because of his great love wants to allow us the privilege to experience that awesomeness and to have a personal relationship with him.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 2, 2011 11:39:15 GMT -5
No other religion teaches that a holy omnipotent full loving God made an effort to restore and have direct personal relationship between man and his Creator.
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Post by Michael Wells on Apr 2, 2011 11:46:34 GMT -5
Well said Ryan
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Post by Alper Cosar on Apr 2, 2011 14:47:18 GMT -5
Personal Relationship with God, SERIOUSLY???  Theists do need justifications for the claims they make. What is the justification for saying a personal realtionship with god exists? Excuses for why this isn’t in evidence don’t count as a form of evidence. No–one knows of a god or our true relationship with it or of why that relationship matters or should. Many think they do, but they don’t....... there's always a single, emotionally charged linchpin at the center of it all. The basis of their belief. I'm less inclined to think that people who say Jesus is their rock as I am to think their rock is really a single fragile hope that they'll get to see a particular favorite pet or relative who died when they were young and impressionable again. Or those who profess to have a personal relationship with God really just didn't have that great a relationship with their own Dad, an unspoken and morbid twist on the "god of the gaps" argument (gotta believe in a loving God because Daddy didn't love me enough...) Others are just such incredibly nasty personalities that believing in a God who forgives just by asking for it is some sort of twisted psychological necessity. Yet others must believe in a God to give existence itself meaning, not being imaginative enough to give life meaning on their own. The list goes on. |
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Post by Bill Maenza on Apr 2, 2011 15:22:28 GMT -5
Alper,
Long time no see. Will you be at practice on Thursday?
Bill
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 2, 2011 15:46:12 GMT -5
Personal Relationship with God, SERIOUSLY??? Theists do need justifications for the claims they make. What is the justification for saying a personal realtionship with god exists? Excuses for why this isn’t in evidence don’t count as a form of evidence. No–one knows of a god or our true relationship with it or of why that relationship matters or should. Many think they do, but they don’t....... there's always a single, emotionally charged linchpin at the center of it all. The basis of their belief. I'm less inclined to think that people who say Jesus is their rock as I am to think their rock is really a single fragile hope that they'll get to see a particular favorite pet or relative who died when they were young and impressionable again. Or those who profess to have a personal relationship with God really just didn't have that great a relationship with their own Dad, an unspoken and morbid twist on the "god of the gaps" argument (gotta believe in a loving God because Daddy didn't love me enough...) Others are just such incredibly nasty personalities that believing in a God who forgives just by asking for it is some sort of twisted psychological necessity. Yet others must believe in a God to give existence itself meaning, not being imaginative enough to give life meaning on their own. The list goes on. No one knows...spoken by someone who in order to believe that statement must first believe he knows everything - or at least the single most contemplated question in most people's lifetimes. All of those reasons are yes, reasons many people could would and have leaned on their faith or the existence of God for either security or meaning, but stereotyping or generalizing is pointless. The topic at hand - do you like a non-religious person? People are people - some I like, some I don't - but I do believe it is "RIGHT" - to love everyone - better said, to have an inner and sincere "CARE" - for all. I have known just as many if not more believers in my life that I "DID NOT LIKE" - than non-believers. People are people no matter what they believe in. Some people may believe in Santa Claus - but not leave out the milk and cookies on Christmas Eve - another words, whats the point? If you don't walk your talk you are just another hypocrite - and you don't have to believe in God or religion to do so. Alper I can understand the tone of your argument - considering all of the other posts - but its incomplete. You list all of those possibilities, legitimate as they are, but giving examples of how Christians may "WRONGLY" justify their faith does not discount the other reasons that may exist. I was LUCKY and BLESSED enough to have a loving family - who believed in character and discipline. I am far from a perfect product as were my parents, but they laid a foundation of ethics and principles to fall back on. SPIRITUALITY is not a myth - its a very powerful reality - and its roots, good and bad, have been around alot longer than all of us. Whether you have experienced anything on a spiritual level or not does not defeat its existence. Stephen Hawking may not even believe in it, but even he is limited to his own personal experience, and whomever else' personal experience he deems credible in books. I do believe in a Creator - as is the case - I believe we share a spiritual nature. This whole "personal relationship" thing - although I don't believe to be a mandate of the Christian faith - believe that is possible. MEN ARE LIMITED - science is the ultimate evolution. But it is supremely LIMITED by the science we have conquered, discovered, and logically discerned TO THIS POINT, and limited to what we have yet to contemplate. Discounting people's faith - or their ability to "KNOW" of God - is no different than KNOWING the world was flat. It took a boat traveling beyond the end of the world to realize there was another possibility, to KNOW that the world was indeed not flat. And for some people, it would take God personally in whatever way possible revealing Himself to you, in order to believe. But to each his own right? Just like every murderer did not come from a dysfunctional home, every Christian did not either, nor do they need to feel some meaning to life and replace it with the existence of a higher power. Some people believe because they feel it is the truth. And some people DO NOT believe for the very same reason. Thats only fair. |
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Post by Alper Cosar on Apr 2, 2011 15:59:14 GMT -5
Alper, Long time no see. Will you be at practice on Thursday? Bill Not this thursday Bill. I am going to Istanbul, turkey for 2 weeks. How is your injury? Are you healed up and back at it again? Say hi to everyone at Dave's and I will see you in next few weeks after I get back. |
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 2, 2011 16:21:35 GMT -5
I've been saying that on this board for the last 4-5 years don't act shocked now. Lol Oh I know, I'm just curious. If there was no Christianity, do you think that we'd all be running around doing whatever we wanted without any kind of morality? Obviously this is hypothetical, so humor me in pretending that Christianity/Religion never existed. Answer me this Chris. Do you not already see this trend taking place? We as a society have been being desensitized for a while now. The only real difference is if people didn't have values and ethics the process probably would have taken place overwhelmingly faster. The direction people are going and the separation from religion I believe will inevitably result in self destruction. |
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Post by Bill Maenza on Apr 2, 2011 16:28:13 GMT -5
Have a safe trip. I am slowly coming back. Thursday was Day 1. Please PM me as I would like to know how all things turned out for Mustafa's mom. Thanks Alper, Long time no see. Will you be at practice on Thursday? Bill Not this thursday Bill. I am going to Istanbul, turkey for 2 weeks. How is your injury? Are you healed up and back at it again? Say hi to everyone at Dave's and I will see you in next few weeks after I get back. |
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 2, 2011 18:19:10 GMT -5
You can read the bible 1000 times and you could find 1000 different ways to interpit it. Jmo TK Could this be because the Bible is the living word Todd? I think if you pursue God you will find a way to understand and communicate with God. |
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 2, 2011 18:20:40 GMT -5
David, i also believe war is generated from religion, War is generated from free will |
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