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Post by John Byerley on Apr 2, 2011 19:29:33 GMT -5
KINDA on topic - or at least the last few posts. Anybody seen the Adjustment Bureau yet w/Matt Damon? Sometime I think that feels like whats going on. We're in control of the small things - but the big things in life "get adjusted."  Good movie though |
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Post by TK on Apr 2, 2011 21:28:59 GMT -5
You can read the bible 1000 times and you could find 1000 different ways to interpit it. Jmo TK Could this be because the Bible is the living word Todd? I think if you pursue God you will find a way to understand and communicate with God. I've read it, not bad for fiction. No offense, but IMO the book was crafted for Control. Mind control and brain wash control. Ive read better. TK |
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Post by kyledarby on Apr 3, 2011 15:03:05 GMT -5
Could this be because the Bible is the living word Todd? I think if you pursue God you will find a way to understand and communicate with God. I've read it, not bad for fiction. No offense, but IMO the book was crafted for Control. Mind control and brain wash control. Ive read better. TK Todd you are entitled to that belief and it isn't my place to tell you what to accept. I will say this, if you convince yourself something is fake and pursue it negatively you'll never succeed at proving it right. For example I have never been to Argentina. I have never seen it or any proof it really exists. I have read about Argentina and studied it in geography books. I have met people that claim they have been there. In my lifetime I will never go see Argentina. So therefore it doesn't exist. That's not an accurate statement though. To deny God's existence based on your lack of pursuing him with pure intention is false determination. You can say I will never pursue him and he won't show himself to me so therefore I have never seen his existence. Proverbs 3:5-6 says "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in ALL your ways ACKNOWLEDGE him, and he will make your paths straight." Christianity is not solely the bible. Christianity is trust, love, faith, prayer, forgiveness, salvation, scriptures, worship, accountability, and dedication. God isn't a puppet master. You get free will and you make your choices. For the argument of language/translation. You might not like cottage cheese. You might love swiss or muenster though. So because you don't care for cottage you aren't most likely gonna dismiss cheese as a whole. You might not agree with all translations but if pursued genuinely I think it's fair to say you'll find a translation that's fit for you. A personal relationship with Christ is all in. The bible cautions about being "Luke warm" for a legitimate reason. As far as disliking a person based on a belief system or lack there of it's contradictory for someone to judge. I don't like certain behaviors and dislike some lifestyles. I try not to dislike someone. I hate nobody but disassociate my self from some. I hope that provides some perspective. |
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Post by TK on Apr 3, 2011 15:13:16 GMT -5
I've read it, not bad for fiction. No offense, but IMO the book was crafted for Control. Mind control and brain wash control. Ive read better. TK Todd you are entitled to that belief and it isn't my place to tell you what to accept. I will say this, if you convince yourself something is fake and pursue it negatively you'll never succeed at proving it right. For example I have never been to Argentina. I have never seen it or any proof it really exists. I have read about Argentina and studied it in geography books. I have met people that claim they have been there. In my lifetime I will never go see Argentina. So therefore it doesn't exist. That's not an accurate statement though. To deny God's existence based on your lack of pursuing him with pure intention is false determination. You can say I will never pursue him and he won't show himself to me so therefore I have never seen his existence. Proverbs 3:5-6 says "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in ALL your ways ACKNOWLEDGE him, and he will make your paths straight." Christianity is not solely the bible. Christianity is trust, love, faith, prayer, forgiveness, salvation, scriptures, worship, accountability, and dedication. God isn't a puppet master. You get free will and you make your choices. For the argument of language/translation. You might not like cottage cheese. You might love swiss or muenster though. So because you don't care for cottage you aren't most likely gonna dismiss cheese as a whole. You might not agree with all translations but if pursued genuinely I think it's fair to say you'll find a translation that's fit for you. A personal relationship with Christ is all in. The bible cautions about being "Luke warm" for a legitimate reason. As far as disliking a person based on a belief system or lack there of it's contradictory for someone to judge. I don't like certain behaviors and dislike some lifestyles. I try not to dislike someone. I hate nobody but disassociate my self from some. I hope that provides some perspective. Lot of reading! I don't dislike anyone for their beliefs, I hope I haven't given that vibe.... Heck I even like Ryan... And that's a stretch...  Argentina & God? Argentibna proven exist, it's true it really does. Noone can or has proven GOD exist? I bought into the snake oil when I was younger and found that if GOD did exist I would hate him! But I just never completely bought into it, never will. I don't hate anymore, I love my family and take a bullet for them. Didnt need a book nor a fictional being help me be that way. Church is a business and GOD is it's guiding brainwash tool! J an opinion. TK |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 15:48:42 GMT -5
Huge!!
You should see the truck my pastor drives. Man a 20 year truck that breaks down often.... Big business
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Post by TK on Apr 3, 2011 15:59:49 GMT -5
Huge!! You should see the truck my pastor drives. Man a 20 year truck that breaks down often.... Big business Tax free $$. I may take up some preachin' |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 16:21:43 GMT -5
There are tax benefits to being an ordained minister. Sure.... Is that wrong?
Uh no....
Ministers and churches love them or hate them are great benefits to the communities.
So.... What's the problem?
There are a long list of big name preachers and churches that I will 100% agree with you both that are all about the money and should be removed from the body of christ.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 16:24:09 GMT -5
But just because it's a big church and there are millions of dollars going through it doesn't mean that it's a misprioritized church or preacher.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 16:41:34 GMT -5
I know one in particular that gets a bad wrap.
This is a man who has recorded millions of albums and sold them and used the money to build the church and buy a bunch of real estate.
Is that wrong? How is it wrong for a man to use his own income from selling his own music to buy land and build a church.
A great deal of that land was sold to the mall of Louisiana for round about 80million dollars.
That man had the right to keep all 80million dollars because it was his.....
But instead he used that money to build a global radio ministry.
Having that much regular income coming into the church should that preacher still be forced to lived in a cardboard box and starve his family? Uh no.
Let the man live comfortably and well. He has that right. He earned it. He's been blessed with it.
This man preaches the word. He preaches the true message of the bible. He preaches it boldly.
He is not well received.....
He is Jimmy Swaggert
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 16:45:19 GMT -5
I know of another man.....
He is very well received....
He makes millions.....
He hardly knows the word...
He doesn't preach the gospel only fluffy feel good messages.
He only inherited the ministry from his father and turned into big business.
He doesn't talk about the cross or the sacrifice Christ made.
Again..... Multimillionare superstar preacher.... Who doesn't know the word..... And yet is WELL received.
His name is JOEL OSTEEN
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 16:59:43 GMT -5
Another Louisiana preacher is dr LEE ROY THOMPSON
Who wrote the book "money cometh"
He is well received in some groups. And detested in others.
This is a man who's main message is that God provides for his people.....or at least him.
And that's why he has 10 cars most are cadilacs and he says that no one in his congregation should have a car more than 3 years old.
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 3, 2011 17:23:42 GMT -5
To interject a bit into that - Joel Osteen. Growing up in Houston we visited the old Lakewood often because my uncle lead music quite a bit on special occasions. This is back when his father, John Osteen, was pastor. The congregation was around 8000 back then.
All I have ever knew or have heard of John and Joel Osteen - has been good. I have not however been around the family since Joel took over. But Ryan I am not in agreement with you on this one. I don't think everyone has to or should preach the same message.
You were talking about how churches HELP the community? I can't think of another church that pumps more millions in the local community and WORLD than Lakewood - living in Houston, I SAW what they did for the community - its massive.
"Go out into the world and preach the good news" - Yes Joel preaches what many people call the fluff gospel - and its a good message. The truth is when people live according to his messages - then theres not a huge need for the hell fire and brimstone message every Sunday. I heard enough of that growing up, and am not a fan. Thats what outreach programs are for - and classes outside Sunday morning. I think its a place more TEACHING and LEADERSHIP in living a GODLY LIFE - not an hour to tell you what not to do, what will happen if you're BAD, or whatever. The music ministry I do not think is on TV RIGHT? The worship service? From personal experience THE ENTIRE WORSHIP service is full of songs acknowledging and praising the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, and the power of that sacrifice. The message is only a compliment to that, and a lesson.
If the people in church do not know right from wrong and don't know that their are consequences in life for their actions, I don't think a message from the pulpit is going to change that.
Osteen focuses on character, on attitude, on blessings, and curses - on faith filled words, and on actively living a holy life. The church offers something like 50 ministries throughout the week on marriage, single parents, financial classes, tax classes, homeless and charitable ministries are HUGE with them.
ALL THAT BEING SAID - I can't say I know Joel personally anymore as its been 10 years or so since we visited that church, and hes kindave a celebrity now. I'm a firm believer in it takes every ounce of character and integrity to stay ON THE RIGHT PATH when so many MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are being funneled in and out of your wallet.
But no matter, Lakewood puts its money where its mouth is when it comes to giving back - to outreach - and to community building. He may not preach a message that aligns with what you personally enjoy hearing, but I do. And he KNOWS the word - he was raised in that church under his father who ALSO knew the word.
He does not like preaching on subjects that would make him a target for people who would call him a BIGOT or a hatemonger or a judge. He just believes that all judgement should be left to God - he preaches on HOW YOU SHOULD LIVE - and people listen, and reap the blessings of living that message.
I really think the OSTEENS ( JOHN & Joel - have always been stand up guys. Time will tell, but right now, I think its a good thing, and I personally have enjoyed many of the messages. I know you may disagree, but thats my opinion.
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 3, 2011 17:25:24 GMT -5
Now the two guys on late night TV - one selling NO EVIL OIL and the other selling MIRACLE SPRING WATER - those guys I FIRMLY BELIEVE should be slapped ( TO SAY THE LEAST.)
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 17:46:46 GMT -5
Now the two guys on late night TV - one selling NO EVIL OIL and the other selling MIRACLE SPRING WATER - those guys I FIRMLY BELIEVE should be slapped ( TO SAY THE LEAST.) Lol I agree And I understand your point on osteen. But have you seen his interview with Larry king? That's one reason I have the opinion I have. |
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 3, 2011 18:22:00 GMT -5
Yes Larry King - and on King's replacement's show.
One thing I've noticed is he doesn't do well on the spot. I think a big reason is how shy he REALLY is. He memorizes his messages - impressive - so he feels comfortable with that I'm sure. Interviews, especially where people are grilling him to give a TYPICAL answer that will make the headlines and get everybody to say GOTCHA - he tends to back down because he doesn't feel its his place - or the right venue to do so.
I can understand what alot of people would think from watching the interviews, but I think its just because of the type of person he is, definitely not perfect, but not a bad guy either.
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Good movie though
