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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 18:33:53 GMT -5
Definitely not saying he's a bad guy and have no idea what they do for the community.
I don't care for fluffy messages....that's my main beef I guess.
It don't have to be the same message or type of message
But if your "7 steps" doesn't include faith in Christ and him crucified..... Then I'm not interested in anything else.
Ya know?
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 18:37:38 GMT -5
Pressure or not.....
"if you deny me before man I will deny you before my father"
When he can't stand firm on the fact that Christ is the only way to heaven...... In essence he is denying Christ.
Maybe he just had a Peter moment.... But that's how I took it. And many others did as well.
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Post by Bill Maenza on Apr 3, 2011 18:39:17 GMT -5
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 3, 2011 18:48:14 GMT -5
Lol
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Post by Michael Wells on Apr 3, 2011 21:02:20 GMT -5
Osteen is preaches milk. Not a fan. Just sayin
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 3, 2011 23:24:40 GMT -5
Some people need to be slapped around every Sunday - some people need to be reminded each week by their pastor that Jesus died for their sins, that they continue to commit day in and out. ( and no I'm not talking about any of you ) I've known hundreds of people in my life who love the opposite style of preaching - opposite of Osteen. MOST people can't get a grip of their own lives - and thats the truth. So walking in on Sunday and being disciplined from the pulpit is customary. I can't stand it though. Eventually you have to stop making the same mistakes, and start an upward descent towards actually walking the faith. I grew up listening to all the "FUNNY" jokes - fingerpointing - garbage going back an forth, "Oh you gotta watch those Baptists. And those pentecostals - really? And don't get me started on those Catholics, oh Lord!" I HATE the bickering that goes on non-stop - focusing on theology - on doctrine - on translation - between the sects of Christianity. I think the fact that there are no less than 30 DIFFERENT SECTS of the PROTESTANT SIDE of Christianity makes a mockery of Christ' sacrifice.  Lets PASS JUDGEMENT on Osteen for NOT PASSING JUDGMENT on billions while on national TV - billions he could not sit with and minister to face to face - billions who would write off Joel Osteen if he had done so. But all these UPSET Christians - he instead lost THAT audience - the audience who obviously doesn't need him in the first place. I think that is a complete loss of perspective by so many people. Every uptight Christian sitting at home watching the TV seriously believing that JoeL Osteen needed to say something different and CHAMPION the faith at that moment, in that venue, considering what the fallout would have been? He may have gained 1,000,000 non believers - AND LOST 1,000,000 believers - WHAT A DEAL! He DOES need more confidence while on the spot, and needs to choose his words more wisely, but at least he TRIES to watch his tongue - unlike so many of us. "Some people sin by simply overusing their tongue. Ecclesiastes 5:3 says that "a fool's voice is known by multitude of words." People think they appear smart by much talking, but the Bible states just the opposite. Ecclesiastes 5:2 says, "Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few." God doesn't like a blabber mouth. Some people are guilty of speaking too swiftly when they really need to wait before saying anything. God's word says the following in Proverbs 18:13: "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." How many times have you had to "eat" your words because you spoke too swiftly? James 1:19 warns us to be swift to HEAR and SLOW to speak. Why do you suppose God gave us two ears but only one mouth?" Anybody else guilty of that? Joel is human - that interview does not discount his life, his message, and his service, DAY IN AND OUT, to millions of people who have been blessed by that service. I ONLY WISH I could say that about myself. For those of you who are unclear of where LAKEWOOD Church and Joel Osteen stand, below is the mission statement from the link found on their homepage listed under WHAT WE BELIEVE: People may not be FANS of Joel Osteen - but I don't think any preacher needs fans. Some people will benefit from one voice - and others will be blessed and benefited by another's voice. We are not the same people - and we all lead very different lives. Saying Joel denied Christ in that moment is over the top - he has a DEEP passion for people, and for non-believers. And whether you like or not - in today's world - when non-believers hear JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN BELIEVE IN HIM OR GO TO HELL - you know what - that is not the way to preach the gospel or lead people to Christ. People should be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR FRUITS - but all to often we want to be SELFsatisifed with someones message or way of doing things rather than realizing, THE MAN IS JUST ANOTHER MAN - and I believe he is trying is best. He draws so many people in because of how NON judgemental he is - while the local pastor down the street is MORRRRRRRRRRRE than happy to have had the same 100 people going to his church for 50 years. Its a disgrace. That does not mean he does not stick up FOR THE TRUTH with every sermon. Sorry I don't want to sound like hes MY BRO or anything - but the judgemental mentality within Christianity is its own worst enemy. Show people Christ through your own life as an example - and you don't have to worry about the fine print, it will become evident in their life through your witness, or lack thereof. from: www.lakewood.cc/pages/new-here/what-we-believe.aspxThe Bible We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine. The Trinity We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world. Salvation We believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. Water Baptism We believe water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Communion in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross. Growing Relationship We believe every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God's Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ. |
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Post by TK on Apr 4, 2011 5:21:30 GMT -5
todd how do u feel about people who worship satan? Kinda wouldn't have em over for dinner, but to each thier own if they feel like being brainwashed too! Like GOD the Devil was created to keep folks in line. If you wasn't God fearing? You might better consider an eternity with the devil in the lake of fire.... Scary stuff! Don't belive in him either! TK |
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 4, 2011 5:52:36 GMT -5
Brainwashed...I love the occasional verbal slap downs about all people who would be so outrageously ignorant to believe there is a God. Brainwashed? TK you and your family officially have an open invitation to South Texas to see how us brainwashed people operate out here. I'll take care of hotel and food, and we'll have a few good practices as well.
Its a shame that ANYONE feels ok making such huge generalizations about people of faith - brainwashed. I don't need the existence of God or the Devil to keep me in line. I'm a grown man who keeps myself in line because I was taught right from wrong and shown how to do so from a young age, by parents who did the same - and because it is better for you and those around you to conduct yourself accordingly - believing is to me, an intelligent decision reached from observational data - to YOU, NOT believing in God is possibly the same thing, an intelligent decision reached from what you yourself have experienced and observed.
The majority of brainwashing in life that I see is the self BRAINWASHING we put ourselves through to rationalize our own contrived thoughts and actions. People can believe as they wish - but placing all believers in the psych ward with the rest of the mentally incompetent is no better than the preacher who says you're going to hell for every little thing you do wrong in life - EXTREME views.
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Post by Mat Helmer on Apr 4, 2011 8:55:11 GMT -5
We have had discussions, disagreements and disputes. We differ in our beliefs. Can you honestly say that I'm a nut job because of what I believe? FTR I didn't say everyone that believes differently are nut Jobs. I said that the majority of these belief systems are nut job supported.  Tell that nut-job in Florida to stop burning the Qur'an. |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 4, 2011 9:03:48 GMT -5
Heck no.....
He's an American he has the freedom of speech. And obviously he has a statement to make.
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Post by David Owens on Apr 4, 2011 12:13:54 GMT -5
You can read the bible 1000 times and you could find 1000 different ways to interpit it. Jmo TK Could this be because the Bible is the living word Todd? I think if you pursue God you will find a way to understand and communicate with God. Didn't work for me, in fact as I stated before I went looking for god, got baptized..again..went to church sundays wednesdays and some saturdays, mens meeting fellowship meetings, church camp and i learned so much that it actually pushed me away from my beliefs Most christians look for the answers to their questions in the bible, but if you felt like a person was lying to you would you continue to get your answers from him or from somewhere else If you dig hard enough you will find evidence that the bible is a work of fiction designed to keep you in check, look at the original creation of the bible and you will find this, you cannot find the answers to your questions of the legitimacy of the bible by reading the bible If a person wishes to find truth in the bible they will find it, but if the same person tries to find facts that the bible is all or partly fiction they will find that as well |
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 4, 2011 13:15:29 GMT -5
Most CHRISTIANS in fact MOST people simply do not know the first place to start when questioning their faith - the Bible - life - or a million other questions. And alot don't even try. Like David said - the more I stuck around in some of the churches we attended - the more interaction with alot of the people - the more incorrectly translated sermons I heard - it made me question NOT GOD - NOT MY FAITH - but THE MAJORITY of the PEOPLE PROMOTING FAITH, and the inconsistencies with the Bible I was seeing on a daily basis. 90% of Christianity is not about Creation - Noah's Ark - the Garden of Eden or much of the Old Testament in general - its about Jesus Christ - his life, and trying to follow in his footsteps. Its about your actions as an individual - your treatment of yourself, your family, and those around you. Its about having a conscience that YES KEEPS YOU IN CHECK - not out of fear, out of integrity - so that you are a BETTERMENT to society and mankind and not a nuisance. Like I said, 90% - because the Bible has been turned into a shell of its former self - if any of you are really trying to solve the great mysteries of the Bible, what mysteries can be solved, by reading the KING JAMES VERSION - then whats the point? People who are diligent in their search in life won't rely on other people, church, and the KJV to answer those questions they have. Some people may need a little more help than others, but you will only arrive at a point of peace with the faith ( as pertaining to factual knowledge ) by doing it yourself. The Bible is a fictional work of art to keep people in check? What a load of crap. The more I hear that - the more I honestly lean towards concluding that there is no point in even talking about this. People draw END OF and DISCUSSION STOPPING conclusions because they think they have arrived at the point of enlightenment on subjects that if you spent your entire life studying you still would not arrive there. So far just today we've had - Believing in God and or Satan - can ONLY be made by possibly by brainwashing and therefore will leave you a brainwashed, damaged individual who leans on their faith as a crutch because they can't deal with the world without it, especially since they were lonely as a child and didn't have a daddy who loved them, but is thankful that they had the Bible to read, which of course is a lliterary creation only to keep us idiots in check. Some people have no clue how far off they are from actually knowing what they are talking about - yet believe it so whole-heartedly a gun held to their head would change nothing. I learned to ask questions, I keep asking questions, I find answers, if I can't find out an answer I want to know why I can't find or know the answer, and there is usually a solid reason for that, enough so to keep moving on to the next question. Yes you have to know where to look - and be diligent and sincere enough to keep going. GOD IS NOT IN THE CLOSET AT THE LOCAL CHURCH, and not playing HIDE AND SEEK WITH YOU. People are constantly looking for God like waldo to corner him and get him to answer most of the questions you could answer yourself if you cared to look for those answers. The current translations of the Bible are so offbase on so many subjects, stories, entire BOOKS, it makes it extremely difficult to go back and find out what the heck they were talking about sometimes - I've decoded so many texts - that I had heard preached 100 times because the preacher took the KJV for gold - and I felt like something was wrong, and I wanted the answer - and you go back and find out what was actually said - and its like a light bulb goes off that had been out for 100 years. The Bible was commanded to be destroyed by the most powerful empire the world has ever known - at that time they were also the most evil empire the world has ever known. The people protecting the Bible were dying right and left to save it - being crucified - fed to lions - burned at the stake - having their intestines pored out while wild boars ate them while they were still alive - thats not the Bible, thats history, Roman history, Greek history, pick a history and you will hear about these atrocities. WHY?  Oh yah because the Romans wanted to get rid of the book that was made to keep people in check. Those people obviously knew something that most of us did not. They must have seen something that most of us have not. And they experienced a fate that most of us hopefully never have to imagine. How dare any of you for minimalizing what so many thousands, hundreds of thousands, have been persecuted for and murdered for, simply for believing. Its better to say I don't know - than to settle on a thoughtless, meaningless conclusion based on empty logic and a failed individual search of facts. I'm done - ya'll have at it. When a wall is up - you have to scream to get through to them - if thats the case whats the point? The wall is up for a reason. |
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 4, 2011 13:45:46 GMT -5
^^ this young man John Byerley is having big knowledge on Christianity...i appreciate his efforts !!  |
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Post by David Owens on Apr 4, 2011 13:46:23 GMT -5
A failed search? Lol
Just because my seach didn't end in finding god it is a failed search, logical from a christian standpoint I guess, when you have such blind faith in something any other conclusion than the existance of god is a failed search, that's when you know you've got the truth
You learned to ask questions and keep asking questions? Sounds like you didn't ask the right sources or you would still be looking because the one thing religion lacks is proof
Im not hating on anyone for believing anything, to each his own, but when someone chooses not to believe christians sure are quick to say things like, thoughtless meaningless conclusion based empty logic lol yes sir you have it all figured out
I too believe people build walls that they refuse to look around, a few names for some of those walls .....bible..faith...christian..god
Don't get hateful because people don't think the way you do its not very christ like lol
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Post by John Byerley on Apr 4, 2011 14:47:31 GMT -5
1) Didn't say it was a failed search because you didn't find God - its failed because NO answer was found - and you provided your own answer of - "God is fiction - the Bible is fiction - Faith is fiction" - whatever helps you sleep at night
2) My post was not hateful - I defend non-believers all day long when they are attacked for simply not believing - I'll defend people of faith just the same when their views are belittled.
3) Your statements are judgments on peoples lives - which is the very same thing the church is guilty of so much - and part of which gives a large percentage of it a bad name
4) I don't look to you for what is and what is not Christ like - thank you though. You can LOL all day long. How cute.
5) Another thing you didn't get - I asked question until I found out an answer. And then I kept asking questions because no matter how long you live there will always be something you don't know, unless you're David Owens of course. Its called a quest for knowledge - and like you said to each his own. Some people have their limits in that search. I just think its important to always keep learning, about more than just this topic, about anything that is beneficial to you or your family. Thats common sense.
I DONT HAVE IT FIGURED OUT - and neither do you. Your conclusion was thoughtless because of how you presented - full of nothing BUT disrespect and arrogance. If you don't see that now than you may never will.
Don't lump me WITH ANYONE you've ever known, or been affected by when it comes to the faith. You do NOT know me - so don't make assumptions, it just makes you look foolish. And everything I said was not directed at you, but you can take it that way if you like, people love take all the credit in a debate as if I wake up in the morning to use you as an example.
You believe I have a wall up? If there is anything that I do not claim it is to know everything, or much at all - I do however know more than alot of people because I care more than alot of people - thats just the way it is. There's nothing I enjoy more than traveling - and I have had the priviledge of doing so alot in my life, and meeting alot of different types of people. I'm as open minded as any believer you will ever meet. I work in an oil refinery 12-13 hours a day and I live to take care of my wife and make sure shes happy and has everything she needs and most of what she wants. I'm just a normal, hard-working guy, who abides by certain principles and tries my best to live by my faith. Die hard sports fan - I love to play poker, box/fight/wrestle, and sit around and have a few beers with the guys from time to time. I believe doing most things in life in moderation is just fine. But yet you would make me out to be a fool - because of what I believe. Because I believe we are not here by accident or coincidence, and have all the proof I need that lead to that conclusion.
Any time you want to take this debate to another level and use words instead of texts, then I'm open ears. Its hard to get anything across on here and easy for people like you to keep rationalizing your assumptions of me and life in general.
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