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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 5, 2011 11:10:23 GMT -5
My question is why everyone can't realize that each and every person has the right to believe however they choose and one is no more right than the other? Because this is a philosophically and logically inaccurate statement. For example.... I believe there is a God Tk believes there isn't..... One of us is 100% more right than the other. You CANNOT have it both ways. If I didn't believe that I was "more right" than TK..... What's the point in believing what I believe? My belief in God is more than a "feel like" belief. I don't think there is any tension in these discussions. It's just talk. Sure a few things can get a little thick.... But we all love these discussions one way or the other. Otherwise it wouldn't be a continuous topic...  |
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Post by Karen Bean on Apr 5, 2011 11:17:57 GMT -5
My question is why everyone can't realize that each and every person has the right to believe however they choose and one is no more right than the other? Because this is a philosophically and logically inaccurate statement. For example.... I believe there is a God Tk believes there isn't..... One of us is 100% more right than the other. You CANNOT have it both ways. If I didn't believe that I was "more right" than TK..... What's the point in believing what I believe? I don't think there is any tension in these discussions. It's just talk. Sure a few things can get a little thick.... But we all love these discussions one way or the other. Otherwise it wouldn't be a continuous topic... Ryan, my question was not philosophical nor logically inaccurate. You use yourself and Todd as examples. Okay, using those examples, you believe there is a God and Todd believe there is not. WHO is going to be judge and jury as to which one of you is 100% correct and which one is 100% incorrect? It certainly cannot be you or Todd because neither of you have been given the power and authority to judge others. You can only "believe" what you "believe" Ryan. |
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Post by dixonglory on Apr 5, 2011 11:49:38 GMT -5
i am thankful to those men who made me believe that there is a GOD.....
and with my 19years of experience with medical books and experience with thousands of critically ill patients in ICU s, I will say there is God.
if you dont believe in the existance of God you are really missing a great fortune in life !!
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 5, 2011 11:57:45 GMT -5
Sure you can only believe what you believe.
But when comparing absolutes, truth determines right and wrong.
If I used me an engin as an example... Saying
I believe Jesus is God.
Engin believes Allah Is God.
Then I wouldn't have said one of us is 100% more right than the other...... Though I believe that to be the case....
There is that philosophical and theoretical possibility that we are both wrong and there is no God at all.
But in my example with TK
One of us is unarguably undisputedly 100% more right than the other.
Who/what decides which is right?
Truth. Absolute truth.
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Post by Karen Bean on Apr 5, 2011 12:39:31 GMT -5
Aaahhhhh, but herein lies the problem Ryan. You "believe" you are right based on your belief as to what the "truth" may be.
Just as others believe the same way with their truth.
There is no definitive answer! It all comes down to your choice as to what you may or may not believe.
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Post by Logan Schuetzle on Apr 5, 2011 12:56:59 GMT -5
Exactly, you can't say a matter of fact. Neither of you can prove that your right or wrong. So nobody can judge who is right or wrong.
As for all those coincidences, yes i do believe they can happen. There are more then likely other earth like planets that exist in the universe that are the right distance from there star. Just because conditions are perfect for us doesn't mean they are perfect for all other life in the universe. There could be a planet where conditions are different. Say life has adapted to breath a carbon dioxide rich and oxygen deficient atmosphere, now that would not be perfect for us, but would seem perfect to them.
As for how we got here, we will never know. Are brains aren't powerful enough to comprehend the beginning or the universe or a God.
At the end of the day its all pointless, just as the universe is. Not trying to be negative, but what is the purpose of the existence? There can't be one.
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Post by TK on Apr 5, 2011 12:57:43 GMT -5
Sure you can only believe what you believe. But when comparing absolutes, truth determines right and wrong. If I used me an engin as an example... Saying I believe Jesus is God. Engin believes Allah Is God. Then I wouldn't have said one of us is 100% more right than the other...... Though I believe that to be the case.... There is that philosophical and theoretical possibility that we are both wrong and there is no God at all. But in my example with TK One of us is unarguably undisputedly 100% more right than the other. Who/what decides which is right? Truth. Absolute truth. Ryan, I am Right.....  quit arguing with me.....think like me....do like me....belive like me.......sound familiar? i don't know if i'm right, so throw out the 100% on my opinion, i ask for facts...you don't...you accept what is/. i still would not change one thing diff in my life even if i did get prooof of GOD..... back on topic: there is no proof GOD exist as to there will never be accurate information to why we exist?........until GOD speaks to everyone.....and no Ryan i don't mean in your mind... ......we will never know in our lifetime..... but i'll say this....i'm livivng in the NOW, just in case my ashes are exactly that..ashes.......i aint gonna spend no time worshipping nor talking to something (i believe) doesnt exist. hello Ryan! TK nice examples by the way.....  |
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 5, 2011 13:02:35 GMT -5
I think to break it down even more Karen, Ryan meant that either he is wrong and there is no god or he is right and there is. Simply put there either is or is not a god. It's one way or the other no grey area. There can only be one answer to that question it can't be there is and there isn't. No matter what someone believes the truth would be the truth regardless of belief. I also believe in God. There is too much of an impossibility for everything to just happen by accident. I really like studying into physics even though I suck at all the stuff I love reading about quantum mechanics and the like, there is theories about the universe resulting from different dimensions colliding with each other and there is supposedly some evidence to show a little support for the thoery. Now my question is to people that believe there is not God, Why can't there be if there can be other dimensions an such which sound like something out of a fantasy book?  I find the more and more I research about God in other religions and read into modern findings in science the more it reinforces my belief in God. I have never seen order naturally come from Chaos. Only with guidance have I ever seen it. I do believe there to be evidence of God in any religion and all over the world/universe/dimension/ect....... Most people who don't want to believe in a God or care about how everything came to be are the simple people who are just happy to live life without working about the big questions that others ask themselves. And Ryan crash test a 500mph jumbo jet into a reinforced building and see how much debris is left. I remember seeing debris from the plane when I was watching it live on tv when it happened. There is also a video showing the plane heading towards the building. I believe in some conspiracies and admit they are pretty compelling but 9/11 is not one of them. I have read into a lot of the reports and remember a lot of what happened live. Most of those youtube and conspiracy sites completely take out of context what some people said on camera and don't show the whole footage of what the people were talking about. The stuff supposedly put on the infrastructure to cause the collapse according to the conspiracy theorists was busted all to pieces. |
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 5, 2011 13:06:08 GMT -5
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Post by John Wilson on Apr 5, 2011 13:10:11 GMT -5
Rick started a very good thread. I'd like to discuss it in the way Rick intended. Religion and God are two different things. I think it is very healthy to step outside of religion to discuss God.
God, in this way of thinking, is the Creator. Let's leave it at that long enough to discuss existance or non-existance of such a creator versus the alternative, which would be that chaos organized itself into a repeatable system on every level that we can identify order.
From a purely scientific perspective, I believe that all science points to a creator. The only way to ignore intelligent design is to so severely limit the sample you observe that you can isolate the parts without seeing them as pieces of a greater whole. In other words, you have to look at an atom and pretend it is the only atom of its kind. I say that, because if you admit that this particular atom is identical to countless other atoms then you have repeatability. Repeatability is the first undeniable step toward a system. A system implies design, and designs must have a designer. A stable system, in any form, must have outside input or the system will degrade into chaos. (2nd Law of Thermodynamics.)
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Post by Rick Laton on Apr 5, 2011 14:08:06 GMT -5
I know I cannot answer the question of where did GOD come from, but you cannot answer the question of where did everything else come from. I at least feel like I know where everything else came from..... GOD. I personally find it easier to believe that there is a GOD that created all things than I do to believe that all of the things that I mentioned earlier keep happening over and over and over out of coincidence. Rick, I believe you answered your question right here. None of us can definitively answer the question of Where did God come from? Is there a God? Where did the Universe come from? Etc, etc, etc You "feel like" you know that everything came from God because you "find it easier to believe there is a God". Others "feel like" they know that everything did not come from God because they "find it easier to believe there is no God". To me - it's simple, it's easy, it's right in front of all of us...................The answer is We "feel like" believing whatever we find "easier to believe". My question is why everyone can't realize that each and every person has the right to believe however they choose and one is no more right than the other? Why is it that it always - at least on this board with the same people - it's their way and no other, and their choice is to ridicule, belittle, and attempt to totally discredit any and everything they don't "believe"? Why is it that people can't seem to agree to disagree? First off, I do feel like everyone has the right to their opinion and I can agree to disagree. If I'm wrong, when I die I am put in the ground and it's over. If I am right, lots of good people on this board are going to wish that I had pushed a little harder to explain my way of thinking to them. As a believer in God I feel that I was put on this earth by God and that it is my job to help others to believe the same. I try to be respectful when I do this. I don't try to be one of those "My way or the highway" type of guys. Okay, we have gotten WAY off topic here. We have 12,000 other pages of this already. Let's get back to the topic at hand. How do you explain all the things that happen in life over and over and over again? Let's say we don't have any scientists, any text books, the internet or any hand written "Words of God". You are the first person to have a theory on all this. Where do you start? Big Bang or Creator? If (today) you saw an automobile sitting there running, would you think that it was built by someone (Created) or would you think that it happened by a random accident? Let's say the same with a ocean full of billions of fish. We know it was not artificially created like a pond behind your house. How did it get here. (Created) or random accident? I used to play a lot of poker and do a lot of gambling. A good card player goes with the odds. If there are 52 cards in the deck, the odds of getting a 4 with the first card are 4 out of 52. If you are down to the last two cards and you have been keeping up with what has been played and you know that there is a 4 left, your odds are now 1 out of 2. A much better probability. I know this is a TERRIBLE example but I want to go with what makes the MOST sense when it comes to eternity. I would love for it to make PERFECT sense (It doesn't I agree) but it makes MUCH MORE sense than the rest of the alternatives. Not even close in my eyes. |
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Post by Karen Bean on Apr 5, 2011 14:39:03 GMT -5
I think the huge problem is also the fact that we can explain or at least seriously attempt to explain objects that we can see, i.e. your example of the car. Yes the car is in front of our face, we see it, therefore we know it had to be made. Scientists believe that the oceans came from within the earth's core caused by volcanoes erupting years ago. They also believe they came from comets colliding with the earth. These are somewhat, and I say somewhat, fairly easy things to understand and produce answers for.
It's the things you can't see, feel, touch, or smell that become somewhat tough. When you are discussing something that absolutely no one has ever had any "proof" of whatsoever by use of any of our senses, the debate circle opens.
Take for example - the wind. Now granted we can feel the wind on our face, but we cannot touch or see it. But we do have at least one of our senses at work.
But, to your question of where did God come from? We all can give our opinions as to what we "believe" in answer to that question. But again, no one can give a definitive answer.
We can explain how millions and billions of species live on this planet. They all didn't start millions and billions of years ago. Way too many have evolved through the years. Which is interesting when you have people that will totally discount evolution, even though it's proven to exist.
Bottom line Rick you can't explain it. There are just some things in life that none of us can or ever will be able to explain.
It's like how do you explain the timing of the "Jesus thing" and the backboard? LOL You can't! Everyone else - that's just for Rick.
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Post by John Parton on Apr 5, 2011 14:55:53 GMT -5
I do believe man evolved, I don't think we nor the earth were created in seven days. The rest of the post is UN explainable to me..I can't wait for some of these answers. There is no evidence in the scientific world whatsoever that ANY species evolved into another. Species definitely adapted greatly. The idea that an explosion could create anything but a mess not only is against every law of physics, but if you think about it is just plain silly There are people who have CREATED some type of design circumstance for the most primitve components of life, but go back to that capitalized word and there is still intelligent design. There is a GOD. As far as the six days (it was six not seven ;D) I am going to throw something out there that most people don't think about. Perhaps they weren't Earth days  Remember our days consists of one revolution of our planet. A day or a year on another planet would be greatly different, so who knows what it might be in Heaven |
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 5, 2011 15:04:49 GMT -5
The bible is specific about the length and source of measuring days...
Genesis 1: 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Apr 5, 2011 15:05:32 GMT -5
Indicating the rotation of the earth as it's measurement
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Remember our days consists of one revolution of our planet. A day or a year on another planet would be greatly different, so who knows what it might be in Heaven