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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 25, 2006 18:09:01 GMT -5
Well Simon it's too bad you feel that way because drug testing is here to stay. Everyone wanted it and now we have it. We don't have the resources to make up our own list. If we did we would not catch anyone because they could use masking agents (on WADA's list but not ours) to hide everything. To go that route we may as well throw the whole thing out because it would be useless since we would only the odd dumb a**.
As for the leaking of information it happens in every sport just look at the recent cases of Floyd Landis and Marion Jones. I'm not saying it's right but their results were made public after the "A" sample. Hopefully we can bring in measures to correct this in the future.
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Post by simon on Aug 25, 2006 18:43:28 GMT -5
Rick I must have done a very poor job of explaining this a dozen times. We take the WADA list remove the BS cold meds, and make that our list, that will not take a huge resource to do, if WADA adds something that makes sense we add it to our list. More labs than there are WADA labs in the world will be able to test for it I promise. We would not be behind we would be right where we should be, excluding the stupidity and addressing the true performance enhancing drugs.
Between repeating that above and all of the times I have tried to convince the WAF to simply do WADA properly if they were going to run around swinging the WADA warclub over their head I could have written a viable protocol and made the banned list, hell I have given the WAF tons of emails on the subject all ignored, simply because they have their own agenda. They did not want to hear me then, I promise the will hear me now and keep hearing me on everything.
Yes Rick people voted on doping they voted on a proper WADA program which we do not have so maybe those that voted should contact the WAF and ask them why they are not following the measure that passed. Anti doping in sports may be here to stay but you are assuming the WAF will continue to matter, not at this rate they won't.
Sure there are going to be leaks but I would not call the Russian Fed posting it on their website a leak, that is an outright announcement, with a known culprit, well that is if we actually had a proper WADA policy in place to address the issue, if we had a policy Willie could have provided it to the Russian Fed as a reminder of the proper protocol on disclosing testing information, but again contrary to WADA we don't have one.
We are what 9 weeks from the Worlds in Manchester care to tell me what we are doing for testing there, you don't know and I don't know, Neil does not know because we have not done anything to address it yet, we have not so much as addressed the problems with last years testing all these months. This like all things is being done in backrooms, away from the eyes of the sport and it will be slammed down and carried out by the seat of our pants all over again this year.
This is what makes us look like a joke Rick.
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Post by Willy Deneumostier on Aug 25, 2006 20:12:33 GMT -5
ladies and gentlemen, I will let you knwo the exact way that we have procede to this EAF's test control and explain to all what's happening . Please let me the time to translate from french to english to be sure that there is no misunderstanding or mistake on this. Thank you
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Post by simon on Aug 26, 2006 16:22:15 GMT -5
OK Willie but no answering only the questions you choose to, considering what is going on I think it is time you get prepared to answer all questions in a straight forward manner, please be prepared because I will have a lot.
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Post by Robert Kornek on Aug 26, 2006 17:05:20 GMT -5
Hello everybody, I didn´t know that I startet so hot case. I got the info about the test results from Petra Spatz. She sent me and the members of our Club the email she received from Willy to inform us about the test results. I spoke with her at the phone and she told me that she didn´t know that it is a secret to give the info before the end of the "B" test and before all the procedure was done. I also didn´t know that I can´t speak to somebody about it or put it on the message board.So I just wanted to share this info with the armwrestlers. Please excuse me and forgive me if I did something wrong but I didn´t know it. Hope You understand me.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 26, 2006 17:11:20 GMT -5
i thought you saw the results from the Russian board,i was wrong.sorry Simon.
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 26, 2006 17:12:09 GMT -5
Actually you didn't do anything wrong since we don't have any regulations at this time concerning the distribution of information.
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Post by Bob Brown on Aug 26, 2006 17:17:21 GMT -5
I don't claim to know to much about WADA, the IOC or the WAF dopeing interests.
BUT if the WAF's goal is to get into the Olympics and they use WADA then we should also use WADA in it's current form even if we disagree with it.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 26, 2006 17:21:58 GMT -5
Bob,
i agree with you 100% and that is what i have been trying to explain to Simon whenever we discuss about this matter.but he believes that to be accepted by IOC as an olympic sport does not require to have WADA standards but i disagree with him about this matter.
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Post by Rick Pinkney on Aug 26, 2006 17:22:31 GMT -5
You realize by making such a statement that you may be subjecting yourself to the Wrath of Simon. I think that's the name of Speilberg's next movie.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 26, 2006 17:23:24 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by simon on Aug 26, 2006 17:26:31 GMT -5
Actually there is absolutely no requirement from the IOC that we have a WADA program, there is no requirement from the IOC that we even drug test, only that we have a drug policy.
Considering the only way we will ever get to the Olympics is if we become affiliated with a large IOC viable org, once we do that we will adopt the policy they use, which even then there is no requirement we ever drug test within our sport.
Only once we have athletes going to and actually competing in the Olympics would armwrestling athletes ever be required to WADA drug test. Many sports that compete in the Olympics have a drug policy but never test until the Olympics.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 26, 2006 17:39:53 GMT -5
Simon,
most of the serious sports have been in Olympics even before the doping tests started to be performed by IOC.
i also believe that it is the best for armwrestling to be a doping tested sport even we are not an olympic sport yet,because of a few reasons;
1- there will be more fair competetions as we have been witnessed that the places of the medalists being changed by these doping tests even though WAF and EAF still can not perform enough tests because of economical problems.
2- athletes will not have to harm their healths for the sake of winning,as we all know that the main reason of doing sports are to have a healthy activity,not health harming activity.
3-officials and athletes will be experienced and prepared about doping tests when armwrestling will hopefully become an olympic sport.because as a show sport we have to do our job perfectly to become a permanent sport in olympics.
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Post by simon on Aug 26, 2006 17:48:38 GMT -5
Come on guys there are others that deserve some wrath you don't need to worry about it.
I will tell you for a fact that we do not need WADA right now, there is no requirement from the IOC to have a WADA drug policy prior to consideration, only that you have an anti doping policy in place.
Now we may disagree on what is the better approach for us right now, to go ahead and have WADA now rather than waiting to have WADA only when and once we are required, OK I am simply of the mind that we are incapable of facilitating WADA at this juncture.
The protocols are too tough (as we have proven because almost two years now and we are no where near complying with the standard) and the list is too extensive and vague for our sport at this point.
If we did not do WADA we could do more tests in the sport easier because we would not have to pay that outragous WADA test cost we could use a ton more labs, athletes could even pay to have themselves tested against our standard if they have concerns (which you cannot do with WADA) and for me most importantly we could write up a program that fits our sport and does what this is supposed to do, improve the sport by removing performance enhancing drugs from our sport in an effective manner.
I know Engin you are for random testing, we do not have the funds or the ability to do that under the WADA standard, but we could under our own standard...
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Post by simon on Aug 26, 2006 17:53:10 GMT -5
Hello everybody, I didn´t know that I startet so hot case. I got the info about the test results from Petra Spatz. She sent me and the members of our Club the email she received from Willy to inform us about the test results. I spoke with her at the phone and she told me that she didn´t know that it is a secret to give the info before the end of the "B" test and before all the procedure was done. I also didn´t know that I can´t speak to somebody about it or put it on the message board.So I just wanted to share this info with the armwrestlers. Please excuse me and forgive me if I did something wrong but I didn´t know it. Hope You understand me. As Rick said you did nothing wrong Robert as we have no policy in place, the point is that if we are following the WADA standard we should have a disclosure policy in place, after we did such a poor job of handling Artem and all the tests last year. To me it is deplorable that we did not address and fix this issue, how hard is it to write a policy explaining the what, how and whens we should make public information about dope testing results.
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