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Post by Jason Merlo on Jul 30, 2012 8:28:01 GMT -5
I wonder what Travis' opinion on this matter would be, Devon or Voevoda? He has pulled both and has won and lost to both.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jul 30, 2012 11:15:38 GMT -5
Travis is not near the shape he was in back then. That Travis crushed John and everyone else easy at Mohegan
Mike Todd IS a good example. Regardless of his new style, when he stood up and layed on Devon's arm he went right through... He couldn't do that to voevoda
Johnny, you say John peeled alexeys hand ?.... Not what I saw I saw voevoda hit sideways and John peel his hand off of voevoda and ball it up to open his fingers... Which is a foul in some organizations. He had no hand control in that match, which is why once they were tied together it was easy. Ever try to hang onto a person who is committed to not hanging onto you ?... Even if you are MUCH stronger it can look close because it's an awkward pull. Let's not forget we have seen Devon lose his hand too
I'm confused about this hook talk... Even from John... Who... I repeat WHO gave the man anything... Be it hook, top roll, press?... How can even John gauge... He got smoked... And he was injured against Devon
Again, we have seen Devon lose... Get top rolled... In a hook war.. None of this has happened with alexey.
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Post by Felix Bürger on Jul 30, 2012 16:45:02 GMT -5
you are wrong at some points Rob, after Todd loses to Voevoda, the same year or a year later Brzenk dominated Todd at ROTN like Todd was a 14year old girl... Voevoda got handled by Gashevski, Germanus, Pushkar, Travis etc.
how can Brzenk gauge you say ?? 2004 was the weakest form of John EVER, he said that on the Engin page in facebook.. The most technical, the strongest and the smartest armwrestler just was Brzenk... IMO
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Post by Dante Dall'Antonia on Jul 30, 2012 17:38:09 GMT -5
I think that whoever wins honestly dosent really matter what matters is these matches should happen because 1 on 1 at this level is the most exciting thing to watch for fans of armwrestling it is awesome just to see like example Brzenk vs Cyplenkov Vegas or Devon Lupkes Todd Pushkar we can all pick this stuff apart forever but until it happens nobody knows how it will go down look at Devon Pushkar . We need to see matches like Jerry Bath Bresnan Underwood Todd Pushkar Cyplenkov Liliev Devon Brzenk etc etc.
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Post by Dante Dall'Antonia on Jul 30, 2012 17:43:24 GMT -5
Also i would like to see something with these guys T Hutchings S Perron Babayev Georgi ? or Zoloev vs One of NorthAmericas top 198 guys
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Post by Doug Letic on Jul 30, 2012 18:27:13 GMT -5
i want to see jerry - devon.. both are in north america.. so it shouldnt be a problem as devon-denis..
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Post by John Milne on Jul 30, 2012 19:46:04 GMT -5
I mean I get the Devon fan base and loyalty, but we have seen him lose a good deal too. When did voevoda lose?... Once to a very strong Travis .... The same Travis who became the best righty for a period of time and smoked Devon. I know everyone is bigger and stronger now, but nobody seemed close... Not John, or a big Travis, or a big girdner, or even the number 2 guy mike todd...who was what 280 .... Alexey posed with him, even let him get his shoulder on top of it... It was not even close.... Can devon say that ? Has alexey been flashed ? Shown weaknesses in areas like a high hard top roll... Like Devon ? Cruised through both super matches and tournament brackets ... There is no arguing who is best today, but alexey showed no chink in his armor, Devon seems to have a few, I'd have to see him lose to believe it. From everything I saw that 2004 alexey was the best AW to date...IMO I kind of get the anti - Devon stuff... I mean sorta. He's shown weakness yes, but he's overcome. He hasn't lost a one on one vs 2006 (right), that's far from losing as often as you let on. I guess my opinion comes from saying it over and over again and always being right. It kind of gives one confidence, you know... always being right about something, even in the face of the strongest detractors. My opinion does not come from being a "fan" but more from seeing it again and again and again and again. He's slow - ok He's been flashed - ok He's had his wrist taken - ok He's been beat in a hook - ok Here is the trump card to all of the above. HE HASN'T LOST. Not to Brzenk, Bagent, Randall, Lupkes, Bath, Underwood, Bresnan, Todd, so have we really seen him lose "a good deal" To whom? I stand by my prediction and I would bet on it. Just as I would have bet when I said Devon would beat John 6-0 and was told I didn't know what I was talking about. I'm used to it by now... being right that is.
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Post by Ryan Adams on Jul 30, 2012 21:05:36 GMT -5
Devon can pull cracked back. Also remember how much trouble pushkar gave Alexey from a cracked hand position Pushkar flopped to survive longer. Flopping can make it harder to be finished. And Pushkar near got his arm broke when Voevoda pushed through him to finish.
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Post by Jason Merlo on Jul 30, 2012 21:38:33 GMT -5
Yea, what exactly happened to pushkar in that match, I couldnt tell, dislocated shoulder?
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Post by John Roberts on Jul 30, 2012 21:38:52 GMT -5
Ryan,
Welcome back
When will we see you and that friend of yours pullin?
How bout a trainning video or something....
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Post by Jason Merlo on Jul 30, 2012 21:40:36 GMT -5
And I have to agree, voevoda pulled right through michael todd in that supermatch 6-0, and brzenk did take down michael todd easily in the ROTN....brzenk just held him there for show and then just took him to the pad
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on Jul 30, 2012 22:27:33 GMT -5
John its not anti Devon at all, this is a debate about two greats.... Me having an opinion that goes against yours isn't anti Devon . I simply stated why I felt the way I do.. Sure he hasn't lost a 6 rd matchup as a whole, but he did take his losses, it's not like he is pulling 6-0 on everyone. Since voevoda hit his stride, he looked like a 6-0 kinda guy... IMO ... That's. Not a knock on Devon, just my observation.
Felix, talking about those guys beating voevoda is like talking about engin losing to the bum that came into his flower shop... It's time sensitive... We are talking about their peaks.
I think mike was 50lbs lighter at rotn... And prior to injuries, John had arguably the strongest arm in the world, so him holding mike shouldn't surprise anyone.
Its like the Tyson Ali talks, we will never see it, and if we did it would be tainted because it will never be "that " voevoda... He looks like 220-230 right now... Nothing like he was at 04'
Today, right now... Devon EASY... You are right John
If you Canucks hop into a Delorean and jet back to that zloty I'd pick alexey..., But I have been wrong, none of it surprises me
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Post by Andy Freeland on Jul 30, 2012 22:33:52 GMT -5
crap. I appologise Rob.
+1
The Delorian? Holy hell..... nice
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Jul 30, 2012 23:57:40 GMT -5
My only point about the rolling out part. You're right he didn't peel Alexey back John actually got his own hand cracked back some but even with that he was able to bring Alexey back to center and a little his way. But I don't even remember his doing that to Devon at all.
I will take what he told me and not use that as a way to compare Devon and Alexey. I use to think Alexey would just dominate Devon but Devon just kept winning and winning. Im not sure if he could stop Alexey from pinning him. I do believe though that if the match stopped that Devon would win whether it was in a bad position or not. Of course I never remember seeing Alexey's endurance tested at his peak. But Pushkar did seem to wear him down some with a flopped wrist which resulted in Alexey having to press. I also think Devon would have a stronger hook. But I think Alexey would be very hard to turn inside. My opinion is in a tournament Alexey wins all day long. In a supermatch I gotta lean towards Devon.
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Post by John Milne on Jul 31, 2012 5:04:55 GMT -5
I know your post wasn't anti Devon Rob, I was just playing on the "fan base and loyalty" comment you made. I enjoy reading what you write, it's usually bang on and lacks the one sidedness of most.
I hear that you're training and coming back, it will be good to see where you're at.
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