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Post by Andrew Bieganski on May 23, 2013 22:14:11 GMT -5
Also cadorette, fisher, cobra and chandler but there's not enough options . I wudda put brzenk and Zilla but I figured they'd get a majority of the votes
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on May 23, 2013 23:12:11 GMT -5
Best lb for lb means a sure bet in their own class and can hurt the classes above... Chaffee... He is a super... Last few times I saw him He is at 270+... Tim is a big dude too... So they belong in the "best".. Argument... Not lb4lb... That argument is for the best guy in his class to compare if he is more dominant in his realm than the heavy weight best... Like sugar ray... Vs Ali ... Obviously... Ali would kill him 50 out of 50 times, but was Ali as dominant in his class as ray was ?...that's an argument.. And a testament to the pound for pound case...
In the us.. Guys that own their class...
Brzenk and Todd... He is injured, but I'll. Give it to em Miller and myself are both successful at higher classes Nelson as he is 220 and wreaks havoc on most any heavy event Roman was one Patton... Dubriel... Fisher... Cobra...
There are many good arguments
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Post by David Owens on May 23, 2013 23:33:34 GMT -5
Chad.
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Post by John Milne on May 23, 2013 23:53:46 GMT -5
Chaffee doesn't care about pulling someone 11 lbs more than him.
Most smaller guys do. Some can do it effectively, some cannot.
Even if you scale it up, turn 11 lbs into 22 lbs, Chaffee doesn't care. IMO it's usually the best hw who is best p4p because he can give up a hundred pounds and still win. Prime example would be Brzenk (or Larratt). Both are not even supers but were (are) the best in the world at given times.
P4p is subjective and always will be. Don't listen to anyone who "absolutely knows" the answer for sure. There is no pure correct answer, it will always be opinion - so take any answer with a grain of salt.
There are a couple of ways to look at p4p. Primarily it's made for little guys to feel at par with the big guys (which they are not).
People may say that Zoloev is the best p4p and they have a great case for that. He did lose to Todzilla in a fairly uneventful match though and there wasn't a huge gap in weight.
Something to think about here... IF (whatever lw you want) just needs to put on weight to be the best in the world why doesn't he? Answer: Because he cant, or else he would. There is much more prestige, money, etc in the ultimate list than in weight classes.
IMO best p4p is Larratt (yes, I know he's Canadian). At 235 he's number one. He regularly takes on men who weigh 75 lbs more, sometimes up to a hundred pounds more. No concern about the 11 lb increase, 22 lb increase, etc.
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Post by Justin "Bama Bull" Bishop on May 23, 2013 23:59:09 GMT -5
Chad and Craig, there guys beating guys up a class or two and beating them VERY IMPRESSIVELY! Vazgen as well he beats very good 98 pullers.
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Post by Aaron Blevins on May 24, 2013 1:30:17 GMT -5
John. Do you believe HW's in general train as effectively as lighter pullers? Or did Devon just show up in the HW class beating everyone? Was he ranked #1 on the planet in the 90's? Or have one of the Nastiest hooks in the world back then? Im guessing no. So... even at the HW level, Devon is a prime example of lb4lb stronger and kind of smaller... He's 6'5" 235... pretty lean for that height, but over time... while some of the real BIG boys were napping... D. Larratt was training.
So. For me, I do believe in lb4lb... it is real in any weight class. Just HW's don't want to believe it because... in general vs smaller guys, they just win. How about a 150lb guy bench pressing 300lbs vs a 250lb guy benching 300? Its real.... and that 150 guy had to work his @ss off to get there.
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Post by Aaron Blevins on May 24, 2013 1:43:54 GMT -5
so. matter of fact, its not subjective. it is real. to many cases to say otherwise. to the initial post, who is it? that is subjective.
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on May 24, 2013 5:34:29 GMT -5
Chaffee doesn't care about pulling someone 11 lbs more than him. Most smaller guys do. Some can do it effectively, some cannot. Even if you scale it up, turn 11 lbs into 22 lbs, Chaffee doesn't care. IMO it's usually the best hw who is best p4p because he can give up a hundred pounds and still win. Prime example would be Brzenk (or Larratt). Both are not even supers but were (are) the best in the world at given times. P4p is subjective and always will be. Don't listen to anyone who "absolutely knows" the answer for sure. There is no pure correct answer, it will always be opinion - so take any answer with a grain of salt. There are a couple of ways to look at p4p. Primarily it's made for little guys to feel at par with the big guys (which they are not). People may say that Zoloev is the best p4p and they have a great case for that. He did lose to Todzilla in a fairly uneventful match though and there wasn't a huge gap in weight. Something to think about here... IF ( whatever lw you want) just needs to put on weight to be the best in the world why doesn't he? Answer: Because he cant, or else he would. There is much more prestige, money, etc in the ultimate list than in weight classes. IMO best p4p is Larratt (yes, I know he's Canadian). At 235 he's number one. He regularly takes on men who weigh 75 lbs more, sometimes up to a hundred pounds more. No concern about the 11 lb increase, 22 lb increase, etc. Damn, whats going on? i actually agree with JM? And he with me lately?I feel like I am in the Seinfeld episode, where everything That was the opposite of what George believed was right.....
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Post by Joseph Pagani on May 24, 2013 5:48:22 GMT -5
For me zoloev is the best p4p outside the USA, but I agree with John, there is no definite answer, all a matter of opinion. Good topic to debate..
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Post by James Worke on May 24, 2013 6:24:53 GMT -5
Cant believe chad wasnt even in the poll. You can add options when making a poll, but cant change the poll once youve made it. You would have put brzenk and todd, but theyd got the majority of the votes.....hmmmm...wasnt that the point of the poll? To see who everyone thought was the best p4p.
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Post by Andrew Bieganski on May 24, 2013 6:43:41 GMT -5
Totally forgot to put chad.
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Post by Andrew Bieganski on May 24, 2013 6:51:15 GMT -5
James.. I just figured its no fun if someone wins the poll by a blowout
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on May 24, 2013 6:54:28 GMT -5
I get the point about heavyweight pulling guys 100 lbs more than them... But where does weight stop being an advantage ?... You can only have so much quality weight I mean this could turn into a whole different debate, but if a 235 Devon pulls a 350 optiz ... Is he REALLY disadvantaged ?... He is giving up over a 100 lbs... But it is just that... Weight. I feel differently about weight than 99% on here anyhow... And the lighter guys do cry... But in terms of skeletons... I'm sorry but a dominant 154 who can sweep a 200 lb class is VERY different than a 270 behemoth who pulls a 400 lber... I'm never the advocate for weight, but let's be honest... I don't see ripped 350lb guys walking around... And it is an unlimited class because after a certain point... It really doesn't matter. Sure Devon isn't the heaviest guy... But how many guys does he pull that have mechanical advantages ?... Probably 1%... And none of these guys at 300 are curling their Bodyweight... So the old hanging off your arm is mook point as well
Good points... Lotsa guys fall into the lb 4 lb debate... Nothing is definitive I personally never really aspired to be the best in my class... Nobody cares about " the best puller* "... Fill in the blank, they want to just know who's the best.
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Post by BRANDON BOUDOIN on May 24, 2013 7:53:36 GMT -5
Tullier / Devon
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Post by John Milne on May 24, 2013 7:57:23 GMT -5
John. Do you believe HW's in general train as effectively as lighter pullers? Well this is a generalization but yes, for sure. Heavier guys don't restrict themselves. They don't think about calories or weight classes. Therefore - on that fact alone they are training MORE effectively. Their bodies are getting at least the amount of fuel it needs to get stronger, for recovery, etc. Fact is, if you're restricting your body's caloric intake, you're limiting it's ability to reach it's ultimate potential. To me, the answer to this is clear, unless you're thinking about it from a different angle.
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