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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 11:57:08 GMT -5
Tim B again UAL would have to follow some kind of RULES to be seen as the only nationals,there is no use of winning UAL to get to worlds, get to worlds and have the really stricked rules, half of the UAL champs woldnt make it 3 rounds the way they pull!!!!!!! Todd K OMG Im (cant beleave it) agreeing with most of your points,makeing more sence than most!!!!!! Keep up good work!!!!! This is exactly the real point. Either your tournament is part of the WAF pipeline or it is not. UAL, ARMWARS, etc ARE NOT part of the WAF pipeline. They have nothing to do, and nothing in common, with the WAF. Leave "Nationals" and "Worlds" to the amateur events which all flow up to the WAF Worlds, which has become the supreme event for Amateur Armwrestling. The WAF is never EVER going to be the organization, or even the format, that will make this sport mainstream or offer professional events. Like Tim said, apples and oranges. If you want to be a Pro, pull pro events with pro rules and pro format. BUT, those things will get you 2-and-out at a WAF event.
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 12:02:05 GMT -5
^Yes, I know UAL is going to host a UNIFIEDS. In that case, the event must follow WAF rules and is therefore a USAF event, not a UAL event.
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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 6, 2013 12:09:45 GMT -5
Thank you John. As usual, voice of intelligence.
Simple Todd. Considering we've all been promoting since before most of you were born or when you were in diapers - no disrespect meant - why should we change? We are promoters, you are competitors. Of course this will come off as being bitchy since it's coming from me but would be intelligent if coming from Leonard (welcome to the age old double standard of men vs women) if you don't like the service any of us provide, do something else.
Now I'm not trying to be a bitch here, just honest. We have some advocating boycotting - yep that makes perfectly good sense, by all means boycott something you enjoy doing. We have some saying a "true" national championship - define true. You are no more a National champion if you compete in AAA, USAA, or USAF.
Why care about world? 99.9% of you won't go any way and have no desire to go. It's something to bitch about.
I do find it amazing that instead of saying damn guys we really appreciate what each of you have done for so damn many years - all the blood, sweat and tears, the time, the money, the travel, the being away from our families, the lack of appreciation, the lack of respect, the awards, etc etc etc - all we seem to get is the constant bitching, griping, and complaining. Typical of some human beings - never satisfied or appreciating what you have, always greedy to have more.
Boxing - multiple champions Football - multiple champions Baseball - multiple champions Basketball - multiple champions
47 Super Bowl games - 47 Super Bowl Champions - 94 NFC & AFC Champions. Is one not legitimate? Is one more true than the other? Is one more elite than the other?
We have competitors going to Armwars to win a title. It doesn't matter what title it is, they will win it. What right do any of us have to tell them their title is not "true" or "legitimate"?
We have competitors going to UAL trying to win a "World Champion" ring. What right do any of have to tell them their title is not "true" or "legitimate"?
If 1/10th of the time spent on this message board by some was spent actually working out and training we might actually see the competition level rise in some classes. As it is, all we see are message board complaining champions!
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 12:48:24 GMT -5
Thank you John. As usual, voice of intelligence. Simple Todd. Considering we've all been promoting since before most of you were born or when you were in diapers - no disrespect meant - why should we change? We are promoters, you are competitors. Of course this will come off as being bitchy since it's coming from me but would be intelligent if coming from Leonard (welcome to the age old double standard of men vs women) if you don't like the service any of us provide, do something else. Now I'm not trying to be a bitch here, just honest. We have some advocating boycotting - yep that makes perfectly good sense, by all means boycott something you enjoy doing. We have some saying a "true" national championship - define true. You are no more a National champion if you compete in AAA, USAA, or USAF. Why care about world? 99.9% of you won't go any way and have no desire to go. It's something to bitch about. I do find it amazing that instead of saying damn guys we really appreciate what each of you have done for so damn many years - all the blood, sweat and tears, the time, the money, the travel, the being away from our families, the lack of appreciation, the lack of respect, the awards, etc etc etc - all we seem to get is the constant bitching, griping, and complaining. Typical of some human beings - never satisfied or appreciating what you have, always greedy to have more. Boxing - multiple champions Football - multiple champions Baseball - multiple champions Basketball - multiple champions 47 Super Bowl games - 47 Super Bowl Champions - 94 NFC & AFC Champions. Is one not legitimate? Is one more true than the other? Is one more elite than the other? I did love the diapers comment....so true....lol that's why I'm trying to figure things out, I may be alone in this, but I'm not sure of my sports history and why it become the way it is.. short explanation: If I were to hunt down a sponsor (in which I have) he's willing to back me (or my team as a whole) Which event puts my team nationally reconized? 1. the one that holds more value? (world qualifier) 2. the one that pays out? 3. the one thats been running the longest? i HOPE noones thinking i'm busting chops here, cos i'm not....it's when I explain to my new team mates how things are run in our sport..i swear I can't explain it...."hey guys lets train for the biggest event in the nation" well which event would that be? I don't have a clue guys....what would WE as a team save up for? to be a watered down national champ or a world qualifier? or just be the best in our state or region? TK
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Post by Bruce Ronquille Jr on Aug 6, 2013 12:51:01 GMT -5
If saying being a national champ by winning all 3
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 13:20:10 GMT -5
If saying being a national champ by winning all 3 when they are held merely weeks apart?
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Post by Mike West on Aug 6, 2013 14:18:44 GMT -5
This years showing at the Unified Nationals shows that apparently many don't care about the "true nationals", because they didn't show up to support it. So how is someone suppose to get that "legit true national title", if people don't show? I've been trying my whole armwrestling career (and that's longer than some of you have been alive) to win a AAA national title in the Open division, hasn't happened yet But did it this year at Unifieds, which would I rather have, that AAA title
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Post by Chris Burns on Aug 6, 2013 14:36:19 GMT -5
Karen and Jon....thanks for the historical and intelligent input and perspective...always cool to learn some structural background to this sport...Karen...you did not sound bitchy!...in fact...I hope to one day participate in one of your events so I can give you a big squeeze!....Jon....I liked the way you explained the difference between the UAL vs the others....well said....
Although I personally am not bothered by an organization having their own Nationals....and therefore.... resulting in more than one nationals.....and...knowing the fact that Unifieds is the only Nationals that counts towards worlds....I dont feel like the running of multiple nationals is negative towards the sport...but...I can see how multiple national crowns can put people in a tizzy and seem like they are being given away like tic tacs....
Perhaps simply changing the name to regional championship is an option...or some cool name...
It would not motivate or discourage me either way to participate or not...and...it would keep the term ....nationals... exclusively with unifieds...
Without speaking for the other parts of the country.....what I see in the northeast....besides perhaps with some of the elite or top of the list pullers( I can see an elite puller skipping an event if that person has a high profile match up coming up)....arm wrestlers.... I feel ....dont go to one nationals vs another because it may be an easier win.....most pullers around here usually go wherever they can to pull ....basements...driveways....backyards....bars...restaurants....parking lots...tents...fairs ect....
If it is a good tourney.....they try to find a way there....
Logistically...being able to get to a tournament seems to be the biggest deterrent....
Chaffee, Vazgen, Storm won the triple crown last year.....all great pullers and awesome guys....I have been able to lock up with them all.....not sure if I am more impressed with them all winning all three....or....that they were able to go and compete at all three...
...And what if they did not show...and someone else won.....again....only speaking for what I see in the northeast....I really dont see anyone getting upset if someone else less deserving won at a nationals event....I think the better pullers know the whos who of the sport.... Credibility issue?...sure...but I dont think anyone is losing sleep....there are other big fish to fry...
Winning tournaments is great....but its the match ups that make it a great tournament.....people want to know who pulled who....who won...how was the match.....along with what Mike West stated....its the quality that counts...
Again...personally...it does not bother me that organizations hold their own nationals....but...it would be more credible to have one nationals....where the best of the best have at it.....
With worlds being held in the USA in 2015....perhaps more big named pullers will attend Unifieds for that year....I am excited to see the attendance for that one.....
It would be nice if Unifieds were held in a location that was beneficial and motivating for pullers to attend....and that their Independent nationals were not held too close to one another.....
....on a more professional level...I am excited....as it seems many pullers are....about what Mr. Drenk and UAL are doing....between the plans of the UAL ...and Worlds coming to the USA.... Arm wrestling has some great opportunities to look forward to.. and possible take advantage of.....
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Post by Bruce Ronquille Jr on Aug 6, 2013 14:45:45 GMT -5
The only way you could compare the national titles in this sport with other major sports is if we were getting payed hundreds of thousands of dollars and getting payed trips to all these championships like football players baseball players etc. I personally think that the promoters of each region should get together and agree on having regional championships like the sec championship that tk does that qualify you to go nationals and claim at title
And I'm a newbie that's just my opinion I think it's a good idea that will prob never happen.
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 15:05:18 GMT -5
Thank you John. As usual, voice of intelligence. Boxing - multiple champions Football - multiple champions Baseball - multiple champions Basketball - multiple champions 47 Super Bowl games - 47 Super Bowl Champions - 94 NFC & AFC Champions. Is one not legitimate? Is one more true than the other? Is one more elite than the other? FOOTBALL? NFL from sake of Arguement? the NFL finds the champions from 2 diff conferences and meets in ONE final championship! there are no other professional footballl leagues that will be considered as THE champion. basKETBALL? NBA THEY have one champion...not challenged by any other in this country. BASEBALL SAME THING...ONE FINAL CHAMP. AND SO ON..... OUR SPORT DOESN'T HAVE THAT "CHAMPION"....WE HAVE CLOGGED UP THE SYSTEM SO BAD...DRANO CAN'T FIX IT.... BALTIMORE RAVENS ARE THE NFL CHAMPS...UNCONTESTED BECAUSE THEY BEAT EVERYONE ELSE....LOOK AT THE RAVENS AS A PATICULAR PULLER......IMAGINE IF THE RAVENS WIN THE SUPERBOWL AND SOME OTHER LEAGUE SAYS THEY'RE THE CHAMP?.....IT WON'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THE NFL HAS THEIR CRAP TOGETHER. as a puller my opinion doesn't mean anything, I can live with that. I'd just like to be proud of my sport from every angle. Instead of the confusion. maybe find an example that shows lack of unity and confusion within a sport. you'll only find US. TK
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 15:18:24 GMT -5
soooo...in a nutshell? UNIFIEDS is the true Nationals and the other 2 are strictly for Glory? Yes. Because each organization has been holdling a Nationals since we were both kids. Would I prefer they both dropped "Nationals" from the name and gave the event some super-cool name instead? Yes. But it's their organization and not mine. Because everyone thinks "Nationals" sounds cool and they think that's what their biggest event of the year ought to be called. better yet why can't USAA & AAA combine thier events with Unifieds and make it better? UNIFIEDS is "Nationals" if you are thinking of WAF Worlds. But what about organizations, or pullers for that matter, who don't give a flying hoot about the WAF? Why should anyone who is not part of the WAF pipeline change everything about their organization to suit the WAF? should we care about WAF.....so far in my illustrious career I -haven't.....lol TK
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Aug 6, 2013 15:27:17 GMT -5
This years showing at the Unified Nationals shows that apparently many don't care about the "true nationals", because they didn't show up to support it. So how is someone suppose to get that "legit true national title", if people don't show? I've been trying my whole armwrestling career (and that's longer than some of you have been alive) to win a AAA national title in the Open division, hasn't happened yet But did it this year at Unifieds, which would I rather have, that AAA title NO Mike it comes down to which costs less to go to...If from the south, u went to AAAs, if east, USAA, midwest USAFS...Plan and simple.. Y spend all tyhat $ going to Ct or WI if i can win a NAT TItle in the south, where i live. OR visa versa...GET IT? i was looking to go to Unifieds til i saw what it cost to go to EAU CLAIRE REALLY?..But i was told that i couild fly into a bigger city, if it cost to much to fly directly, and then i could RENT a car and drive in..OH, OK, no problem.. My last 2 Nat titles were AAA. In 08 it was in West Palm, Fl. Where my family came to watch me pull for the FIRST TIME EVER. And also friends, who never saw me pull... And in 09, only cause I jumped in a car with 5 others TO SHARE the COST, AND i pulled an old training partner and 2 current training partners... 3 is ridiculous, regardless of who was first, ect ,etc,etc. THE only one that should be a Nat title is the one the qualifies you for WAF, LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. And the only way to do that is to NOT go to the others, and have the UNIFIEDS at a city that is easiest to get to FOR ALL PULLERS.. THose putting on the Unifieds ARE CAPABLE of get SPONSORS to of set the COST...But thats another story
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Aug 6, 2013 15:40:07 GMT -5
From what I can tell, the "fake" Nationals, USAA, had the biggest turn out. We had 14 in the Pro 176 RH class alone.
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 15:43:00 GMT -5
The only way you could compare the national titles in this sport with other major sports is if we were getting payed hundreds of thousands of dollars and getting payed trips to all these championships like football players baseball players etc. I personally think that the promoters of each region should get together and agree on having regional championships like the sec championship that tk does that qualify you to go nationals and claim at title And I'm a newbie that's just my opinion I think it's a good idea that will prob never happen. thats not a bad idea at all.
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 15:48:59 GMT -5
This years showing at the Unified Nationals shows that apparently many don't care about the "true nationals", because they didn't show up to support it. So how is someone suppose to get that "legit true national title", if people don't show? I've been trying my whole armwrestling career (and that's longer than some of you have been alive) to win a AAA national title in the Open division, hasn't happened yet But did it this year at Unifieds, which would I rather have, that AAA title NO Mike it comes down to which costs less to go to...If from the south, u went to AAAs, if east, USAA, midwest USAFS...Plan and simple.. Y spend all tyhat $ going to Ct or WI if i can win a NAT TItle in the south, where i live. OR visa versa...GET IT? i was looking to go to Unifieds til i saw what it cost to go to EAU CLAIRE REALLY?..But i was told that i couild fly into a bigger city, if it cost to much to fly directly, and then i could RENT a car and drive in..OH, OK, no problem.. My last 2 Nat titles were AAA. In 08 it was in West Palm, Fl. Where my family came to watch me pull for the FIRST TIME EVER. And also friends, who never saw me pull... And in 09, only cause I jumped in a car with 5 others TO SHARE the COST, AND i pulled an old training partner and 2 current training partners... 3 is ridiculous, regardless of who was first, ect ,etc,etc. THE only one that should be a Nat title is the one the qualifies you for WFS, LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. ANd the only way to do that isto NOT go to the others, and have the UNFIEDS at a city that is easiest to get to FOR ALL PULLERS.. THoseputting on the Unifids ARE CAPABLE of get SPONSORS to of set the COST...But thats another story one national one year vegas next year Atl. it would keep the Regions fresh and make it possible for everyone, airports and locations made close and inexpensive. it would also give everyone a key place to prepare for $$$.... Vegas or Atlanta..... this is where the question ponders....do THEY care about the Armwrestlers? TK
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