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Post by TK on Aug 5, 2013 17:37:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the phone call Leonard!!!
It helped a lot.
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Post by TK on Aug 5, 2013 18:49:04 GMT -5
I'm still slightly cloudy on the whole topic still... I know nationals has always had more than one... My question is this? Was AAA the first "known" nationals? Who was the second? Who was the third? Of the ones in existence now? I'd like someone to shape this for me  TK |
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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 5, 2013 19:13:13 GMT -5
AAA held it's 47th Annual Nationals event this past weekend. And, I say "annual" because it's been 47 years that an AAA National event has been held but years ago, AAA held a stand up and a sit down each year due to WAF being sit down for many years and then switching from one to the other for a few years before just using stand up.
USAA has been having theirs for 20 years? 25 years? Sorry Leonard if I'm off.
USA, now USAF has been having theirs for 16 years.
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Post by Joseph Pagani on Aug 5, 2013 19:20:34 GMT -5
AAA held it's 47th Annual Nationals event this past weekend. And, I say "annual" because it's been 47 years that an AAA National event has been held but years ago, AAA held a stand up and a sit down each year due to WAF being sit down for many years and then switching from one to the other for a few years before just using stand up. USAA has been having theirs for 20 years? 25 years? Sorry Leonard if I'm off. USA, now USAF has been having theirs for 16 years. So was the AAA recognized by WAF as the official national competition for USA and qualifiers for the worlds at one point in time? |
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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 5, 2013 19:39:10 GMT -5
Yes, from the WAF's inception up until the WAF split into 2 WAF's and then until 2005 when we bowed out of the first WAF.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on Aug 5, 2013 21:48:46 GMT -5
AAA held it's 47th Annual Nationals event this past weekend. And, I say "annual" because it's been 47 years that an AAA National event has been held but years ago, AAA held a stand up and a sit down each year due to WAF being sit down for many years and then switching from one to the other for a few years before just using stand up. USAA has been having theirs for 20 years? 25 years? Sorry Leonard if I'm off. USA, now USAF has been having theirs for 16 years. I couldn't remember either so (sucks being old) I went to our site, 1994 was our first National and it was Wristwrestling our first national in Armwrestling was in 1995 and we did both in 1995, 1996, 1997 and our last National Wristwrestling was in 1998. So we have had 19 National Armwrestling Championships and 5 National Wristwrestling. I don't know when they started but the NAWA National Arm Wrestling Association was holding National championships in 1977. |
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Jason Gulley
Gold Member
Tennessee Armwrestling Association
Posts: 529
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Post by Jason Gulley on Aug 6, 2013 2:28:42 GMT -5
Hey Jason, what is this comment suppose to mean? "And after my first nationals with 4 fouls/ elbow slides I'm out of the tournament in 5 min I don't see much value to it anymore, not that I'm bitter its just a little off of the balance I like." What value to it don't you see? Just wondering, do you foul in practice? If you foul on AAA elbow pads that much you wouldn't have a chance at Unifieds or WAF worlds. Basically, IMO Just value to me in what i spend my time, money and energy on as a puller. Mike i got all kind of respect for pullers keeping that elbow glued down and guys like you that do it all. Not that i want to bounce my elbow up and down all crazy. Im not going to go on about the slide/elbow fouls. That game is what it is. Lots of folks fouled out that I really wanted to pull. Guys i watched 4 yrs ago when i started like Doug Casto. The possibility level of a foul out is on the High side and couldn't imagine worlds, but if i lose at anything i usually get a little motivated to say the least. Yes im back in the gym but not thinking about a possible Non-monetary prize in the future. Most I think would say a monetary prize has more value than a Non-monetary prize in US arm wrestling. Only time i was over the pond pulling was in Iraq so i don't know what is more valuable to anyone else. Again, it is what it is. Plus i try to keep my mind thinking like a sport consumer and after just getting off the phone with Steve Simmons of WPAA armwrestlinghistorychannel.blogspot.com/2012/03/history-of-world-professional.html good read, Thank you Eric Roussin I have got a little closer to what i want to get out of all this effort and that is just forming my own opinion to why the consumer doesnt see much value in us over all these years. or enough. Steve Simons: “Our all-time dream match was between a biker from the Hell’s Angels and a Methodist minister back in 1977 for the Southern Championship in Atlanta. The minister won, and the biker gave him a hug!” The product (biker vs minister) derived emotion out of the crowd and that is VALUE. besides the pull, the crowd was OBLIGATED to feel the match not just watch it and listen to it. IMO more focus should be coming up with ways to do this to increase all of our value. I got a few ideas and sport marketing class helping out. We will see. Value is what a person will pay or do. or by definition-the monetary worth of something. Its ultimately their choice unless they have a emotional connection to be obligated. I truly wanted to be obligated to a Non-monetary prize but with only so much time, money and energy to choose from especially with a new family makes it hard. Much respect Mike West |
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Post by Mike West on Aug 6, 2013 7:25:04 GMT -5
Hey Jason, what is this comment suppose to mean? "And after my first nationals with 4 fouls/ elbow slides I'm out of the tournament in 5 min I don't see much value to it anymore, not that I'm bitter its just a little off of the balance I like." What value to it don't you see? Just wondering, do you foul in practice? If you foul on AAA elbow pads that much you wouldn't have a chance at Unifieds or WAF worlds. Basically, IMO Just value to me in what i spend my time, money and energy on as a puller. Mike i got all kind of respect for pullers keeping that elbow glued down and guys like you that do it all. Not that i want to bounce my elbow up and down all crazy. Im not going to go on about the slide/elbow fouls. That game is what it is. Lots of folks fouled out that I really wanted to pull. Guys i watched 4 yrs ago when i started like Doug Casto. The possibility level of a foul out is on the High side and couldn't imagine worlds, but if i lose at anything i usually get a little motivated to say the least. Yes im back in the gym but not thinking about a possible Non-monetary prize in the future. Most I think would say a monetary prize has more value than a Non-monetary prize in US arm wrestling. Only time i was over the pond pulling was in Iraq so i don't know what is more valuable to anyone else. Again, it is what it is. Plus i try to keep my mind thinking like a sport consumer and after just getting off the phone with Steve Simmons of WPAA armwrestlinghistorychannel.blogspot.com/2012/03/history-of-world-professional.html good read, Thank you Eric Roussin I have got a little closer to what i want to get out of all this effort and that is just forming my own opinion to why the consumer doesnt see much value in us over all these years. or enough. Steve Simons: “Our all-time dream match was between a biker from the Hell’s Angels and a Methodist minister back in 1977 for the Southern Championship in Atlanta. The minister won, and the biker gave him a hug!” The product (biker vs minister) derived emotion out of the crowd and that is VALUE. besides the pull, the crowd was OBLIGATED to feel the match not just watch it and listen to it. IMO more focus should be coming up with ways to do this to increase all of our value. I got a few ideas and sport marketing class helping out. We will see. Value is what a person will pay or do. or by definition-the monetary worth of something. Its ultimately their choice unless they have a emotional connection to be obligated. I truly wanted to be obligated to a Non-monetary prize but with only so much time, money and energy to choose from especially with a new family makes it hard. Much respect Mike West Ok, was just wondering, because it sounded like because you went 2-0 it wasn't worth going to Nationals anymore. You knew going into it there wasn't any money to be won, just a National title (and a really nice Gold medal)  |
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 9:23:11 GMT -5
AAA held it's 47th Annual Nationals event this past weekend. And, I say "annual" because it's been 47 years that an AAA National event has been held but years ago, AAA held a stand up and a sit down each year due to WAF being sit down for many years and then switching from one to the other for a few years before just using stand up. USAA has been having theirs for 20 years? 25 years? Sorry Leonard if I'm off. USA, now USAF has been having theirs for 16 years. ok. 1ST AAA 47 years 2ND USAA 25 years 3RD USAF 16 years 1. Why can't we have all 3 of these as World qualifiers? 2. why cant these 3 events be separated in date in quarters of the calender year? so the pullers can have a legit chance of being at all 3? why 3? if AAA was first? then why is USAA even called a nationals? why not something different? in my logic there should only be ONE? just trying to figure things out..... and no I'm not ignoring what i've heard already from the leaders of these nationals... I'm actually talking to the pullers and seeing if everyone knows what going on? the whole leading the sheep to slaughter bit ya know? lol are we being led to beleive that something SO important to have someone ELITE say it's not? the whole someone trying to create a 4th nationals? i'm not an "ELITE" puller by no means, but I'm getting READY to start trying my luck on a nationals level. I don't understand which one is the one I'd invest my hard earned money on. see I'm not sponsored YET, so it's my blood sweat and tears INVESTMENT. so there is confusion on which national title I wanna battle for! 1. the first original 2. the imitator 3. the winner of a War? or is there a 4th coming up? with 12 months in a year....how could i possibly do 3 nationals and a worlds "hypothetical" if I were that good you see? which leads to more confusion? what should be the only nationals? TK |
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 10:19:25 GMT -5
Todd, it's because you are trying to compare what you see now and apply it to armwrestling of twenty years ago. It was all different then. "Worlds" today is the WAF. That is a fairly recent thing, and by recent I mean in the last 20 years or so. The AAA and USAA and the IAF and the WPA all go back before the WAF was seen as "the World body."
(Somebody else, please chime in and correct me where I'm wrong.)
Historically, in the US anyway, armwrestling organizations were regional. The AAA was huge and covered the eastern half of the US, but didn't have a whole lot going on west of the Mississippi except for Nebraska and a few other places. Mary McConnaughey was running a lot of great events out there. You'd see some AAA in Iowa, NE, Missouri. AAA had a Nationals every year.
Fifteen years ago, Leonard and Denise were holding the vast majority of events I saw west of the Mississippi. They had a Nationals every year.
You had a lot of other organizations as well. New York has always had its own thing going on. The IAF was the Northeast.
You had Petaluma, which before the WAF existed was the World Championships, among other World Championships. The movie "Over The Top" was laid on top of the World Championships, but it was not the WAF World Championships.
Yukon Jack had it's own World Championships.
Anyhoo, moving into the very recent era that you have in your mind.....
When the WAF came to be, AAA was the organization that was affiliated. Therefore the AAA Nationals became the Nationals that qualified you to go to the WAF Worlds.
Lo, and behold, there came a split in the WAF. The WAF split into two factions, and each held its own WAF World Championships every year. When the WAF split, Leonard and Denise's Nationals qualified you for one faction of the WAF and the AAA Nationals qualified you for the other faction.
This went on for a couple of years.
The WAF split runs its course and now there is only one WAF Worlds. Since AAA and USAA (Leonard and Denise.. I alwasy get the initials screwed up) BOTH have been running WAF Worlds qualifier Nationals, then which one has to bow out? (And being first doesn't matter here, because the affiliations made things difficult.)
The solution was to have a UNIFIED NATIONALS that qualifies you for WAF Worlds. The USAF board was created to put together the Unified Nationals and to handle things with WAF.
The UNIFIED NATIONALS exists as a stand-alone event, non-organizationally-affiliated which is held by the USAF Board that runs UNIFIEDS. So when people go to Simon and ask him to make these big changes for the sake of the sport, that's why he tells them they are barking up the wrong tree. But I'm digressing...
Where it gets confusing is that both the AAA and the USAA still hold their own "historical" Nationals for their own organization, which are not qualifiers to the WAF Worlds. UNIFIEDS is that qualifier.
So, there you have it- as my meager understanding and aging memory have it.
**Karen, Leonard, Simon, Bill, Bill... please help me out here!
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Post by Pete & Tim on Aug 6, 2013 11:22:27 GMT -5
Tim B again UAL would have to follow some kind of RULES to be seen as the only nationals,there is no use of winning UAL to get to worlds, get to worlds and have the really stricked rules, half of the UAL champs woldnt make it 3 rounds the way they pull!!!!!!! Todd K OMG Im (cant beleave it) agreeing with most of your points,makeing more sence than most!!!!!! Keep up good work!!!!!
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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 6, 2013 11:26:22 GMT -5
Todd, it's because you are trying to compare what you see now and apply it to armwrestling of twenty years ago. It was all different then. "Worlds" today is the WAF. That is a fairly recent thing, and by recent I mean in the last 20 years or so. The AAA and USAA and the IAF and the WPA all go back before the WAF was seen as "the World body." (Somebody else, please chime in and correct me where I'm wrong.) Historically, in the US anyway, armwrestling organizations were regional. The AAA was huge and covered the eastern half of the US, but didn't have a whole lot going on west of the Mississippi except for Nebraska and a few other places. Mary McConnaughey was running a lot of great events out there. You'd see some AAA in Iowa, NE, Missouri. AAA had a Nationals every year. Fifteen years ago, Leonard and Denise were holding the vast majority of events I saw west of the Mississippi. They had a Nationals every year. You had a lot of other organizations as well. New York has always had its own thing going on. The IAF was the Northeast. You had Petaluma, which before the WAF existed was the World Championships, among other World Championships. The movie "Over The Top" was laid on top of the World Championships, but it was not the WAF World Championships. Yukon Jack had it's own World Championships. Anyhoo, moving into the very recent era that you have in your mind..... When the WAF came to be, AAA was the organization that was affiliated. Therefore the AAA Nationals became the Nationals that qualified you to go to the WAF Worlds. Lo, and behold, there came a split in the WAF. The WAF split into two factions, and each held its own WAF World Championships every year. When the WAF split, Leonard and Denise's Nationals qualified you for one faction of the WAF and the AAA Nationals qualified you for the other faction. This went on for a couple of years. The WAF split runs its course and now there is only one WAF Worlds. Since AAA and USAA (Leonard and Denise.. I alwasy get the initials screwed up) BOTH have been running WAF Worlds qualifier Nationals, then which one has to bow out? (And being first doesn't matter here, because the affiliations made things difficult.) The solution was to have a UNIFIED NATIONALS that qualifies you for WAF Worlds. The USAF board was created to put together the Unified Nationals and to handle things with WAF. The UNIFIED NATIONALS exists as a stand-alone event, non-organizationally-affiliated which is held by the USAF Board that runs UNIFIEDS. So when people go to Simon and ask him to make these big changes for the sake of the sport, that's why he tells them they are barking up the wrong tree. But I'm digressing... Where it gets confusing is that both the AAA and the USAA still hold their own "historical" Nationals for their own organization, which are not qualifiers to the WAF Worlds. UNIFIEDS is that qualifier. So, there you have it- as my meager understanding and aging memory have it. **Karen, Leonard, Simon, Bill, Bill... please help me out here! John, when the infamous split happened, the USA (which is now USAF) was formed and it's National event qualified to go to the new WAF. USAA (Leonard's org) wasn't the qualifier. Otherwise, ya did good! |
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 11:31:25 GMT -5
Todd, it's because you are trying to compare what you see now and apply it to armwrestling of twenty years ago. It was all different then. "Worlds" today is the WAF. That is a fairly recent thing, and by recent I mean in the last 20 years or so. The AAA and USAA and the IAF and the WPA all go back before the WAF was seen as "the World body." (Somebody else, please chime in and correct me where I'm wrong.) Historically, in the US anyway, armwrestling organizations were regional. The AAA was huge and covered the eastern half of the US, but didn't have a whole lot going on west of the Mississippi except for Nebraska and a few other places. Mary McConnaughey was running a lot of great events out there. You'd see some AAA in Iowa, NE, Missouri. AAA had a Nationals every year. Fifteen years ago, Leonard and Denise were holding the vast majority of events I saw west of the Mississippi. They had a Nationals every year. You had a lot of other organizations as well. New York has always had its own thing going on. The IAF was the Northeast. You had Petaluma, which before the WAF existed was the World Championships, among other World Championships. The movie "Over The Top" was laid on top of the World Championships, but it was not the WAF World Championships. Yukon Jack had it's own World Championships. Anyhoo, moving into the very recent era that you have in your mind..... When the WAF came to be, AAA was the organization that was affiliated. Therefore the AAA Nationals became the Nationals that qualified you to go to the WAF Worlds. Lo, and behold, there came a split in the WAF. The WAF split into two factions, and each held its own WAF World Championships every year. When the WAF split, Leonard and Denise's Nationals qualified you for one faction of the WAF and the AAA Nationals qualified you for the other faction. This went on for a couple of years. The WAF split runs its course and now there is only one WAF Worlds. Since AAA and USAA (Leonard and Denise.. I alwasy get the initials screwed up) BOTH have been running WAF Worlds qualifier Nationals, then which one has to bow out? (And being first doesn't matter here, because the affiliations made things difficult.) The solution was to have a UNIFIED NATIONALS that qualifies you for WAF Worlds. The USAF board was created to put together the Unified Nationals and to handle things with WAF. The UNIFIED NATIONALS exists as a stand-alone event, non-organizationally-affiliated which is held by the USAF Board that runs UNIFIEDS. So when people go to Simon and ask him to make these big changes for the sake of the sport, that's why he tells them they are barking up the wrong tree. But I'm digressing... Where it gets confusing is that both the AAA and the USAA still hold their own "historical" Nationals for their own organization, which are not qualifiers to the WAF Worlds. UNIFIEDS is that qualifier. So, there you have it- as my meager understanding and aging memory have it. **Karen, Leonard, Simon, Bill, Bill... please help me out here! soooo...in a nutshell? UNIFIEDS is the true Nationals and the other 2 are strictly for Glory? to call yourself a national champ, is to be qualified for worlds. so why would USAA & AAA continue with thiers if they are not qualifiers for worlds? and better yet why is there someone adding another nationals? or was that Jeff Janes projecting UAL having a nationals. better yet why can't USAA & AAA combine thier events with Unifieds and make it better? and thanks John!! you actually made the most sense. |
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Post by TK on Aug 6, 2013 11:32:46 GMT -5
Tim B again UAL would have to follow some kind of RULES to be seen as the only nationals,there is no use of winning UAL to get to worlds, get to worlds and have the really stricked rules, half of the UAL champs woldnt make it 3 rounds the way they pull!!!!!!! Todd K OMG Im (cant beleave it) agreeing with most of your points,makeing more sence than most!!!!!! Keep up good work!!!!! thank you sir |
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 11:51:03 GMT -5
soooo...in a nutshell? UNIFIEDS is the true Nationals and the other 2 are strictly for Glory? Yes. so why would USAA & AAA continue with thiers if they are not qualifiers for worlds? Because each organization has been holdling a Nationals since we were both kids. Would I prefer they both dropped "Nationals" from the name and gave the event some super-cool name instead? Yes. But it's their organization and not mine. and better yet why is there someone adding another nationals? or was that Jeff Janes projecting UAL having a nationals. Because everyone thinks "Nationals" sounds cool and they think that's what their biggest event of the year ought to be called. better yet why can't USAA & AAA combine thier events with Unifieds and make it better? UNIFIEDS is "Nationals" if you are thinking of WAF Worlds. But what about organizations, or pullers for that matter, who don't give a flying hoot about the WAF? Why should anyone who is not part of the WAF pipeline change everything about their organization to suit the WAF? |
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