|
Post by Karen Bean on May 1, 2006 18:03:12 GMT -5
Karen, again.....i......will......explain.....this......a....little.....sslower the......comment......was.....not.....directed......at......you.........specifically...... when.....i .....said ......"you"........it was a generic.......meaning.....it is meant.........for any....who....apply ......to......the......situation...... T Let's try this again...................... Your reasoning that your statement is generic is understood. What is not understood is where you get off trying to tell anyone that you are a Christian when you make statements like this. So because women had abortions, they deserved dying? mutilation? Ok, now how about going back and answering the other questions.
|
|
|
Post by Karen Bean on May 1, 2006 18:07:07 GMT -5
Todd. These babies cry out from womb asking for ssomeone to save their lives and you do nothing? The bible that you qouted declares that life begins at conception. so does science...... Which is it Ryan? Previous quote from you Re: 5 broken promises of roe vs. wade « Reply #27 on Yesterday at 10:06pm »
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 18:08:33 GMT -5
your making the same argument as the man who got upset with the police officer for giving him a speeding ticket for 70 ina 25.
Should we make speeding legal for the man to drive this way? No
He shouldnt have been speeding and she shouldnt have been trying to murder that baby, she wouldve avoided the scenario.
Yes i am a christian, read the book and you might see that my statement hasnt disqualified me.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 18:09:33 GMT -5
those staments do not contradict.
please before you try to consistantly twist my words, use logic before you read
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 18:16:59 GMT -5
Babies born with deformities? I believe they should be allowed a chance at life.
To begin with, when a woman is pregnant she has no choice but to “have the baby.” The question is whether she will have a live baby or a dead one. Also, doctors sometimes make mistakes and it is not uncommon for women to give birth to healthy babies after being told that their unborn children had problems.
Most importantly, however, is that people with disabilities are not less valuable than those without, and no one has the right to decide that their lives are not worth living or protecting – not even their mothers.
One of the most incredible aspects of the abortion lobby’s approach to the disabled is that they try to sell it as compassionate. What is often overlooked in all this is the fact that the “choice” they offer is not between a life with handicaps or one without, but between a life with handicaps or no life at all. When abortion apologists call that compassion, let’s recognize for whom this compassion is being shown. Make no mistake, abortions on the disabled are done for us, not them.
Now, if that is not true, and if we truly believe in this “better-dead-than-disabled” philosophy, why limit our compassion to the unborn? Perhaps, as the following people are suggesting, “the right to choose” should be extended beyond the womb.
“There is little evidence that termination of an infant’s life in the first few months following extraction from the womb could be looked upon as murder... It would seem to be more ‘inhumane’ to kill an adult chimpanzee than a newborn baby, since the chimpanzee has greater mental awareness. Murder cannot logically apply to a life form with less mental awareness than a primate.”
Winston L. Duke Article: The New Biology Reason magazine, August 1972
“No newborn infant should be declared human until it has passed certain tests regarding its genetic endowment and if it fails these tests, it forfeits the right to life.”
Dr. Francis Crick Nobel Prize winner Pacific News Service, January, 1978
“In our book, Should the Baby Live, my colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggested that a period of 28 days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others.”
Peter Singer Professor of Bio-Ethics Princeton University
“It is reasonable to describe infanticide as post-natal abortion... Infanticide is actually a very humane thing when you are dealing with misbegotten infants. We might have to encourage it under certain conditionalities of excess population especially when you’re dealing with defective children.”
Joseph Fletcher Professor of Ethics Harvard Divinity School Infanticide and the Value of Life, Prometheus Books, 1978
“Infanticide has a logical continuity with abortion and even with contraception.”
Edward Pohlman, Researcher Planned Parenthood Psychology of Birth Planning Shankman Publishing Cambridge MA, 1967
“If a child were not declared alive until three days after birth, then all parents could be allowed the choice that only a few are given under the present system. The doctor could allow the child to die if the parents so chose and save a lot of misery and suffering.”
Dr. James D. Watson Nobel Prize winner Time magazine, May 28, 1973
These quotes, and many more like them, come from people with very well-established pro-choice credentials. Regrettably, attitudes like theirs are now commonplace within the so-called “bio-ethics” community and they force us to consider how long it will be until the right to kill an imperfect child becomes the responsibility to do so. At a 1986 symposium called, “Prenatal Diagnosis and Its Impact on Society” Dr. James Sorenson, a Professor of Socio-Medical Sciences at Boston University, observed that, “American opinion is rapidly moving toward the position where parents who have an abnormal child may be considered irresponsible.” To see that this observation is not at all farfetched, compare his quote to the issue of family size.
In the past, it was common for Americans to have large families. But now, the prevailing attitude is that couples who have more than one or two children are being selfish and irresponsible. In fact, it is not unheard of for people who have four or five children to be publically confronted by total strangers. That is true even for those couples who want – and can easily afford – a large family.
This attitude was created by the view that large families are no longer “necessary” and that they use up too many public services and resources. The problem is, those same things could also be said about the handicapped.
Today, there are studies indicating that 90% of all unborn children who are diagnosed with Down syndrome are executed in the womb. Clearly, we have come to the point that when pre-natal testing reveals a less-than-perfect baby, abortion is the default position. In fact, women in this situation often say they feel they actually have to justify not having an abortion. It now seems that when people hear of a handicapped child being born, for many their first thought is, “Didn’t the mother know about this when she was pregnant?” If that is where we are – and I am convinced it is – then Sorenson’s prediction has already come true.
Finally, if it is compassionate to execute an unborn child who might have a disability and might live an unpleasant life, it would be even more compassionate to execute a five-year-old who we know is disabled and who we know is living an unpleasant life. In other words, while the quotes given earlier suggest extending the “right to choose” only a short time past birth, if the underlying principle is sound, why should we stop there? Again, why put arbitrary limits on our compassion?
Remember, when the Nazis set out to create the “Master Race,” they began by executing the handicapped and selling it as compassion. If America is going to embrace that same philosophy, executing the born makes as much sense as executing the unborn.
|
|
|
Post by Karen Bean on May 1, 2006 18:38:14 GMT -5
those staments do not contradict. please before you try to consistantly twist my words, use logic before you read Hello...................which is it Ryan - 18 - 21 days AFTER conception that baby's heart starts beating, thus being alive OR immediately AT conception? You have said both - and that is impossible. Pick one and stick with it. Doesn't matter which one, just pick one. Nobody is twisting your words Ryan. You do a good job of that on your own. Post after post you contradict yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 19:11:22 GMT -5
riiiight..... The childs life begins at conception.........his heart beat is detectable and prevelant at 18-21 days........Both are right and they do not contradict.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 19:13:58 GMT -5
one of your earlier posts suggesteed that i look upthe defenition of murder. so i did
v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders v. tr. To kill (another human) unlawfully. To kill brutally or inhumanly. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
by defenition abortion is murder at any stage for any reason of the childs life.
|
|
|
Post by TK on May 1, 2006 20:10:04 GMT -5
Ryan, Jesus freaks have made religion a joke.....they think that Jesus himself talks to them...lol joking aside....abortion is a serious issue....it should be looked at through unbiased eyes.... the most judgemental people on this Earth is the Jesus Freaks because they think it's ok to judge as long as "ask God for for give ness" it's not your Job Ryan to judge a woman who seeks an abortion..it's not yours either Harold.....you need to keep your nose in the book and let "your" God decide who gets punished... unless you are into the Satanic Bible which by the way does allow you to pass judgement on others... I have read both by the way..not much difference... all you do is copy and paste the same crap over and over.....by the way in which i won't waste my time. Ryan, You don't know what murder means sir.... those pictures you sent were sad sure enough... heres a reality check.....nature is nature what do you do when a Cheetah hunts down a Gazelle......... yeah you just watch it..you can't stop it... if it's not your business...why intrude your nature on another.... lets get real....you wacko's are gonna go around and stop every woman from having an abortion? i feel like this if it's not my family or friends involved in abortion i may not judge myself. But Ryan i am very much against rape and Murder....when they pass a law that a woman who gets an abortion is a murderer..i'll kiss your a$$..and apologize...untill then..yes you guessed it... i would always help someone in need if they were in need of help...and i would drive a friend to an abortion clinic if she were raped and the rapist was the father...would do it in a second. then i'd tell you about it. TK
|
|
|
Post by Karen Bean on May 1, 2006 20:11:42 GMT -5
riiiight..... The childs life begins at conception.........his heart beat is detectable and prevelant at 18-21 days........Both are right and they do not contradict. Hello.............you are not "alive" without a heartbeat!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by TK on May 1, 2006 20:18:30 GMT -5
Hello.............you are not "alive" without a heartbeat!!!!!!!!!!! Karen, It's like beating a dead horse...lol TK
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 20:23:45 GMT -5
I said the heart beat is detectable at 18-21 days, doesnt mean it isnt there. so i answered one of your questions you insist that i answer did you even read it?
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 20:25:50 GMT -5
i would drive a friend to an abortion clinic if she were raped and the rapist was the father...would do it in a second. then i'd tell you about it. TK and i would call you an accomplis
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 20:26:42 GMT -5
Ryan, You don't know what murder means sir.... i copied and pasted the defenition
|
|
|
Post by Ryan Thames on May 1, 2006 20:28:41 GMT -5
Ryan, Jesus freaks have made religion a joke.....they think that Jesus himself talks to them...lol has jesus spoke to you telling you that he isnt speaking to us? please refer again to allens post. you have no evidence that it isnt true.
|
|