Ernie
Silver Member
Heavenly Memories Photography
Nebraska
Posts: 270
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Post by Ernie on Jun 30, 2007 22:12:47 GMT -5
Ernie: If i read your post right, the "dogma" book can only be bought by a Mamber? Because I found it all over the internet...Unless I read you post wrong, if so sorry, about that..... You'll find a lot of used ones on the 'net and in used book stores but to purchase it new you must be a Mason. If you find a "new" one for sale a Mason is violating his oath by allowing teachings "not meant for the public at large" to be revealed. As I said before, "Morals and Dogma" used to be given to an initiate upon reaching the 7th "Royal Arch" degree but too many were ending up out in the public because family members didn't know what to do with them when the owner died so the practice was stopped.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2007 19:23:03 GMT -5
Funny how the flow of this thread has gone.. I figure I haven't contributed, so here goes: I learned a "handshake" and confirmed that there are secret words that we "dont need to talk about"......then i go to another mason and ask him the same questions and he denys knowing anything. Sounds like Fred, Barney, and the Water Buffaloes to me... Or maybe Spanky, Alfafa, and the He-Man Woman Haters Club... one thing those klansmen i spoke to would never tell me is...why does 2+2 not always equal 4 I'm not a klansman, but 2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2... So many secrets. So many folks just trying to belong to something... There. I still haven't contributed anything.
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Post by gambit on Jul 1, 2007 23:47:54 GMT -5
Ernie, by posting the scanned images of your book you proved Albert Pike was a Mason. I am glad, matter of fact that you posted the images that you did. I suggest to everyone who reads them to read what comes before and after the highlighted areas, as well as what Ernie wants you to read. Come to your own conclusions as to what they mean. Ernie, I did not see if you answered Karen's post about ever having been a mason? I may have just missed it... I did the same thing Allen has done with most of my questions... I deftly danced around it by talking about other things without actually answering the question. I will answer it when Allen or another admitted Mason answers my question about whether or not my excerpts and descriptions of the Master Mason's oath are accurate or not. It's a simple "yes" or "no" question. Bill, I'll give you this much: All of the documents I've scanned and posted are only available to Masons. Did I answer Karen's question? Good dance, wasn't it? I have not danced, I answered your questions as clear as you will ever deserve. (Go ahead and “deftly” pick that statement apart. Ernie: If i read your post right, the "dogma" book can only be bought by a Mamber? Because I found it all over the internet...Unless I read you post wrong, if so sorry, about that..... You'll find a lot of used ones on the 'net and in used book stores but to purchase it new you must be a Mason. If you find a "new" one for sale a Mason is violating his oath by allowing teachings "not meant for the public at large" to be revealed. Just in the images alone, Ernie, you have proven you are on nothing more than a witch hunt based on something someone else may have told you, for I do not believe you are a Mason. I believe the book you have is one of a deceased relative, or friend, who was not granted permission by the wife to be part of and may have held animosity towards it. Through your interpretations, again, may have misunderstood what Nancy was saying. You answered her reply by saying: “As for how hard it is to accept, I understand. Most times it is easier to ignore or even disparage the messenger rather than believe and accept the message that contradicts or even destroys what you've been taught all your life.” Are you that conceited to think she believed you? Ernie, her point is that she couldn’t believe how easy it came to you in SAYING it. Maybe I am speaking for her when she can do it for herself, but dude, you need to get over your “righteous” attitude and self proclivity. As far as your other statements… Master Masons promise not to cheat, defraud, or do violence to a Master Mason. They promise not to commit adultery with the wife of a Master Mason or seduce his sister, daughter, or other female relative. These promises only apply to fellow Master Masons. They do not protect non-Masons, Entered Apprentices, or Fellow Crafts and their families. If you’re a mason, then you know this is an outright lie! It is true we do the things listed above for brother masons, but it ALSO applies to all mankind. You forgot to add that part Ernie! Nice attempt though. Any Mason who does so betray this to ANYONE is not a Mason AT ALL. Masons are required to tell lies and even perjure themselves to protect other Masons. They are also required to obey even orders which they know to be immoral: "You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate [falsify], don't tell the whole truth in his case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you're keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligation strictly, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 183) "Right or wrong his very existence as a Mason hangs upon obedience to the powers immediately set above him. The one unpardonable crime in a Mason is contumacy [insubordination] or disobedience." (Robert Morris, "Webb's Monitor of Freemasonry," page 169) Free from sin? Who will be the one to forgive someone for such a thing, a man? No. You are, actually, to follow all the allotted rules of your government to the T without deviation – period. If you swear not to lie, you follow your promise – period. In not lying you are following God’s rule. According to masonic oaths, Masons are to be killed if they reveal masonic secrets. In 1826, Captain William Morgan, a high-degree Mason, made masonic secrets public in his book "Freemasonry Exposed." According to the "Masonic Handbook," he was murdered for it. […] The murder of Captain Morgan -- and the kidnapping and attempted murder of his publisher, David Miller -- are described in detail (with extensive quotations from original sources) in the Introduction to the 1998 reprint of "The Character, Claims and Practical Workings of Freemasonry" by Charles G. Finney (pages xxi through xxxviii). (This book was first published in 1869. In 1998 it was reprinted with a Foreword by Ed Decker and an Introduction and Epilog by John Daniel). Pages 6-10 give the death-bed confession of one of Captain Morgan's murderers. “According” to the ‘Masonic Handbook’ written by Edmond Ronayne and reprinted sources of ‘Character, CLAIMS, and Practical Workings of Freemasonry’. I guess they are the authority on this all…? <rolling eyes>. Yes, Morgan is famous for the threat that he was going to reveal masonry’s secrets. RUMORS have it that he was killed by the masons, but he was paranoid about it to the point of just leaving, thus giving the masons the blame. Of course, no side can prove any of the claims, so why start this argument? "When a brother reveals any of our great secrets; whenever, for instance, he tells anything about Boaz, or Tubalcain, or Jachin, or that awful Mah-hah-bone, or even whenever a minister prays in the name of Christ in any of our assemblies, you must always hold yourself in readiness, if called upon, to cut his throat from ear to ear, pull out his tongue by the roots, and bury his body at the bottom of some lake or pond. Of course, all this must be done in secret, as it was in the case of that notorious man Morgan, for both law and civilization are opposed to such barbarous crimes, but then, you know you must live up to your obligation, and so long as you have sworn to do it, by being very strict and obedient in the matter, you'll be free from sin." (Edmond Ronayne, "Masonic Handbook," page 74) This is an outright LIE! Ernie, if you are a Mason, which I doubt, you know you are lying to make your point. If anything you are a “clandestine mason”. Either way, if you are a true Mason, in heart, spirit, and morals you would not be saying crap like this. We had a Baptist preacher at one of “our assemblies” and he spoke directly of CHRIST…IN A GOOD MANNER! (before you theorist come back with your assumptions) You know, I could post some military oaths which has “questionable” contents in them, (which I doubt there are anything questionable about it) but I won’t; it would only give you numb-skulls something else to make that mountain out of. Masons still murder people. In the Foreword to "The Character, Claims and Practical Workings of Freemasonry," Ed Decker tells how he survived attempted murder by Masons (pages i to iii). I’m sure there are Masons who have killed people, Ernie, dose that mean it was done in the name of keeping a fraternal oath? I am sure if I am presented with someone trying to harm my family I would kill also. Ed Decker, if I am not mistaken, was having affairs that broke his marriage up. There’s some morals for ya! Now I am sure it is the mason’s fault for it all…isn’t it? Of course it is. <rolling eyes> Pure speculation… When the Confederacy surrendered to the Union forces, Albert Pike was determined to start another Civil War so that South could win. He founded the Ku Klux Klan, which instigated riots throughout the South in an attempt to disrupt reconstruction and incite a second Civil War. Pike gave Klansman Jesse James the assignment of robbing Northern banks in order to get money to fund this war. It is estimated that Jesse James and other Klansmen buried seven billion dollars in gold all over the western states. ("Scarlet and the Beast," Vol. 3, pages 76-77) Check your sources again, Ernie, the man may have belonged to it, but he certainly did NOT create it. Although 3 million other men (politicians and other common men) who were NOT Masons belonged to the Klan. Explain them. As far as the Eastern Star goes and the pentagram which is used, the guy who associated it, with the ladies sector of Masonry, when it was originated, could have possibly been unaware of the societal interpretation of it. Better yet, just go here and read on it. But, I am sure you won’t read it with any other mindset than a closed one. www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/pentagram_freemasonry.html
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Post by gambit on Jul 1, 2007 23:48:34 GMT -5
Nancy i know whta post your refering to. And i apologize if i wasnt clear before....thaat was just a paste and copy post. I dont agree with everything in it. my point was to show the different things the different levels go through and need to repent of. The subject you are refering to is "generational curses" and i dont know enough about that to comment either way....i have heard several preachers preach both sides.....i dont know if i believe that particular doctrine one way or the other. Ryan, If you just copied and pasted, and don’t agree with EVERYTHING in it, and do not believe the doctrine of it, then why did you post it as a great importance for whoever were descendants of Masons to read and repent? Great sleuthing! What some "masons" dont realize. is i have asked particular questions to other mason and have gotten different responses. I use to work with a bunch of mason and klan members. And due to my curiousity and intrest. i poked at them with questions. I learned a "handshake" and confirmed that there are secret words that we "dont need to talk about"......then i go to another mason and ask him the same questions and he denys knowing anything. Id rather you tell me you cant talk about something than to straight up deny it. thats the difference between not talking, and lying Are you talking about when you ask ME questions and purposely try to impose a handshake which obviously came from a nitwit who apparently knows nothing more than a assumed handshake he may have learned through “poking”? You see, people enjoy “misleading” (if I may be allowed to borrow that word from Ernie) others (You) just for the fun of it. I am not one of those, Ryan. I have been straightforward with you from the get-go. Not in the manner of you being right, which you haven’t been yet, but in the manner of you truly not deserving to know. Better yet, you are who is referred to when misleading is mentioned in Ernie’s post. You said you were going to drop this, so do it. Ryan, Nice to know that you haven't Damned me. But I am concerned about your round-a-bout statement that I need to repent before I die to keep from being Damned! My faith in Christ is strong enough to take care of me...so don't worry yourself! We took this conversation off line last year...and it ended with you not being able to answer my various questions on theology...after I had answered many of your questions. I had hoped I had shown that my faith is based on scripture and is a positive thing...compared to your feelings based on....I'm still not sure. But I again point out the difference between being positive in a person's belief and it being a good thing...compared to being negative and trying to build yourself up by attemping to bring others down. Please grow up and focus your energy toward something positive. You will be much happier for it, in the long run. You might even attract some positive interest in Christ...compared to your extremest negative views you are now know for. You better believe you are damned, Steve. Haha! We all are damned if we do not follow "his method” of worship. (of course I could be talking about JSM)
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Ernie
Silver Member
Heavenly Memories Photography
Nebraska
Posts: 270
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Post by Ernie on Jul 2, 2007 15:11:58 GMT -5
Allen,
I did read the link you posted on the OES star. At one point in it it is admitted that it is a symbol of evil but goes on to say that the author of the Order of the Eastern Star rituals may not have known the meaning of the inverted pentagram at the time.
I find this to be a lame excuse knowing that the inverted, Baphomet, or goat's head star has been a symbol of evil for several thousand years. I find it totally unbelievable that a Mason high enough to be allowed to write rituals was unaware of such a simple fact considering the esoteric teachings of the lodge.
Everything I've posted has been with the intent of educating you, and anybody else reading, to the facts. There are numerous things you have refused to address. Things that are basic in showing the inconsistencies and contradictions between what Masonry claims, what you have said, and what is stated in their own publications. Many biblical verses are specific in their admonition NOT to engage in such affiliations and practices. I've given several verses that you chose to ignore.
One of the things that is a direct contradiction that you blatantly ignored is your statement that Masons must declare a belief in God compared to the blue and white recruiting (OOPS, i mean promotional, er..uh...explanatory) pamphlet that specifically states that a belief in a Supreme Being is the requirement.
This alone is enough to show that you have either been misled or are intentionally lying to protect "the craft."
I will assume that you have been misled for two reasons: 1) I know you are a man of character. 2) Pike's revered writings admit that Masonry is a religion (he also said worship and every lodge is a temple of worship) and that the initiates are intentionally misled. It is up to the individual to figure out the truth. He even stated that those that try to "undeceive" you will labor in vain.
As I've said before, I believe your pride (Satan's favorite sin) is not allowing you to admit you've been deceived by the master of lies.
As for whether or not I am a Mason I can tell you that at the current time I am not. There are many Masons that chose to leave the lodge when they came to Christ, were indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and their eyes were opened to the contradictions between Freemasonry and the plain statements and teachings of the Bible.
As for how I got the *two* copies (1919 and 1930) I have of "Morals and Dogma" for all you know they may have been given to me by an elder family member Mason at the appropriate time. Again, you never addressed the pamphlet that is only available to lodge members.
I hold no animosity or ill will towards you. I know full well the pull of the "Order."
I hope you don't let your pride continue to hold you in bondage and pray that in God's perfect timing your eyes will be opened.
I hope the seeds I've sown will one day bring fruit and the facts I've presented will prevent others from being deceived.
Blessings to all. I've done all I can here to bring true Light to the readers. I will let them decide what they will choose to accept hoping the contradictions I've pointed out will prick their souls as they reread this thread.
Ernie
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Post by TK on Jul 3, 2007 16:21:13 GMT -5
Deep..really deep.....
TK
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 18:09:02 GMT -5
allen.
I didnt say i dont believe that doctrine, i said im not very educated or unsure how i feel about that particular doctrine.
dropped
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Post by gambit on Jul 5, 2007 12:44:34 GMT -5
Ernie - You can assume I am being ignorant because I chose to be, or that I am mislead, it make no difference to me for I do not think you are concerned about my being more than you are in being right. This goes for you and Ryan both. Ryan - yes you did say you didn't believe that doctrine. Read what you said in my quote from you. Either way...whatever. People, I would suggest you do your own sleuthing for information on Masonry. Go to the bashing sites and go to the good sites. Some will explain everything you may want to know and some will not. This site will give you information about both while explaining both. www.masonicinfo.com/This conspiracy crap has gone on for centuries and nothing I will say will sway any of your minds. You either go into your search with an open mind or not. I have said my piece in this matter. I am a member of this great organization who knows what is and what isn't - unlike the so called "experts". Good day.
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