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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 2, 2007 21:28:33 GMT -5
I knew this girl onse who spoke in tounges and she also said she prayed in tounges but she didnt know what she was saying and she couldnt understand why she would wake up in the middle of the night swearing.In her case i would say it was demonic.
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Post by Brittany Bordelon on Jul 2, 2007 21:32:52 GMT -5
Excellent posts thus far. I thoroughly enjoy this type of discussion... educational, amicable, and friendly. Although this topic has been covered very well, I just wanted to add a few things and possibly make it easier for others to understand who may not be as well-versed on the issue.
The following will help as it regards the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
1. A person must accept Jesus Christ as Savior before he can experience the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (John 14:17)
2. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience separate and apart from the initial Salvation experience, and is always received after one is saved. After the individual is saved, he is to ask the Lord to baptize him with the Spirit. (Luke 11:13)
3. We cannot merit or deserve the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is a gift. Peter spoke of receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Jesus said, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them who ask Him?" (Luke 11:13)
4. When one is Baptized with the Spirit, always and without exception, he will speak with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance. There are no exceptions to this. In fact, speaking with other tongues is the initial, physical evidence, that one has been Baptized with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:4, 10:44-46, 11:15-17, 19:2, 6; I Corin. 14:39)
5. The recipient of the Holy Spirit will then find that worshipping and praying in tongues will become a part of his devotion to God, and will be greatly refreshing. (Isa. 28:11-12; I Corin. 14:4)
6. The Holy Spirit Baptism is for all. Anyone and everyone who is saved should be Baptized with the Spirit. (Joel 2:28-29)
7. After you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, you are to understand that the Spirit works within you according to your Faith in the Cross of Christ. In other words, what Jesus did at the Cross provides the parameters in which the Holy Spirit works; consequently, you as a Believer, are to register Faith in the Cross of Christ at all times, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude within your life. (Romans 8:1-2)
Scriptures on the Holy Spirit Baptism (in addition to those already referenced): Isaiah 28:11-12 Matthew 3:11 Acts 1:5 Acts 2:4 Acts 8:14-17 Acts 10:44-46 Acts 11:15-17 Acts 19:2,6 I Corin. 14:39 Jude vs. 20: "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost."
There is a difference in "speaking in tongues" and "praying in tongues," however. I do agree that when tongues are spoken in a congregation, there must be interpretation, as well as the other parameters that Bill has previously mentioned. The Bible does speak about having a certain prayer language.
I Corinthians 14:14-15 14 "For if I pray in an unknown Tongue, my spirit prays (speaks of prayer language, not the Gift of the Spirit, and states that it comes from one's spirit and not one's mind), but my understanding is unfruitful (signifying that it doesn't come from the mind). 15 "What is it then? (This is meant to put the proper face on that which Paul has been saying.) I will pray with the Spirit (pray in Tongues from my spirit, which speaks of one's prayer language), and I will pray with the understanding also (pray in my regular language, which for me is English): I will sing with the spirit (sing from my spirit in other Tongues), and I will sing with the understanding also (sing unto the Lord in English).
I have been in church services where proper protocol was not followed as it regards to the speaking of tongues and no one profited anything. I have also been in church when someone spoke in tongues, there was an interpretation, and the church body was strengthened and edified. It is a tremendous experience.
Editor's note: Removed a stray letter...
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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 2, 2007 23:15:16 GMT -5
I agree Brittany, this has been an enlightening thread.
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Post by Ian "The Grippler" Carnegie on Jul 3, 2007 18:30:49 GMT -5
O.K I officialy think Ryan is avoiding this thread. He posted today so what`s up? ``I need answears`` Grippler out!
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 18:40:56 GMT -5
I would certainly becarefuly in claiming someone who is speaking in toungues is demonic in any sense.
I agree some do speak in toungues in pride. i went to a church where it happened often. and it did grieve my spirit. but....that doesnt mean that the toungues where of the devil or unscriptural.
There is a difference between. Praying in tougues and speaking in tougues.
That may be a hard concept to grasp as they are sooo similar. Praying in tougues....glorifies God. and edifies self....thats edify not glorify.
Speaking in toungues as in or "TO" a congregation should have an interperetation. Yes. And Edifies the church. and glorifies God.
But to pray in the congregation or as the congregation is perfectly ok and scriptural.
Speaking in tougues is one of the nine gifts of the spirit. Givin to a select few. At Gods discretion.
Praying in toungues is for ALL believers. As evidence of your infilling of the spirit.
Speaking in toungues is to speak to the congregation.
Praying in toungues is to speak To God....no interpretation is needed....God already understands.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 18:47:23 GMT -5
In 1 corinthians 14 Paul was simply comparing Praiying in tougues with Love. And edification of the church.
He was saying that toungues and prophecy are useless without love....doesnt mean it wont happen. or that its unscriptural. Simply means its Better edify the church than to edify self.
FTR - Edify means to build up it doesnt mean not be pridful or glorify.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 18:51:46 GMT -5
O.K I officialy think Ryan is avoiding this thread. He posted today so what`s up? ``I need answears`` Grippler out! i just paid $70 bucks to buy a card for my comp, just to chime in on this thread...for you buddy
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 18:52:27 GMT -5
You do NOT have to speak in toungues to be saved.
But you must be saved to recieve the baptism in the holy spirit.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 19:04:48 GMT -5
3 Matthew 11 11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John baptised in water. as a symbol of the death burial and resurection of Christ. This is one of the only two ordinances ever commanded by christ.....Baptism and communion.
But John said that Christ will baptise you in The holy spirit and with FIRE!!
Baptise the greek work baptizo, meaning to FULLY SUBMERGE
Christ will baptise you in the spirit and with FIRE.
How wonderful the idea, that Christ himself will baptize you ...and even more wonderful...that you would be fully fully submerged in the holy spirit. Resulting in a burning spiritual fire in your belly!
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 19:11:00 GMT -5
one of the most wonderful thing one will experience in a church. Is when the whole palce is praising God so louodly. Because he is worthy of Such praise......then all of a sudden the place silences.....evidently not scripted...its simultanious......and then one man will speak out..loudly. No mic needed yet his voice will travel to every ear in the building. and then someone on the other side of the building translate it. That is an eveident power of GOD that NOONE can argue with. Not an atheist, not a pshycologist. NOONE! simply miraculous.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 19:16:01 GMT -5
I'm Baptist And I moved so their is no Baptist church near. I've been thinking of going to a Pentecostal Church (Spelling) I heard tongues are used in this church. I want to go but I'm unsure if I would ever try to speak in tongues. How can you bee certain you aren't calling him names in the name of the devil. is their an interpreter. Does everyone sound the same. I mean like My speech sounds like Chinese your sounds like German and someone els sounds like Spanish. Do you catch what I mean? Noone is going to force you to speak in toungues......however....if it is a particular pentacostal denom they may believe that unless you speak in toungues you arent saved....but thats simply not true. Paul spoke to people and asked them have you recieved the holy spirit since you have believed.....and they said they never heard of it. He was obviously speaking to believers. but also he was offering and encouraging that they alll recieve the baptism in the holy spirit.
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 3, 2007 20:18:29 GMT -5
Ryan im not critisizing you or Mike or the practice of speaking in tounges.The bible says ye shall know them by there fruits.The girl i knew did other things also that didnt seem right.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 3, 2007 21:37:44 GMT -5
i dont deny that robert. But that isnt a result of being baptised in the holy spirit.
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Post by Ian "The Grippler" Carnegie on Jul 3, 2007 23:17:50 GMT -5
So people is it wise for me as a Baptist to go ahead and attend the Pentecostal church I'm not interested in joining any kind of fanatical society. point me in the right direction Friends my children have not attended church regularly yet. My fault!
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Post by Austin Slater on Jul 4, 2007 15:42:05 GMT -5
As for tongues I think they still exists but arent normative and seem to be severely abused by alot of churches today. Ive personally never witnessed anyone speeking in tongues in person and have only seen it abused on tv. So to sum it up I dont think the gift of tongues ceased but would have to guess their use is probably rare.
Grippler-I would go and check it out, are there any other churches in your area that would be more inline with what your comfortable with? Good luck!
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