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Post by Pete & Tim on Jul 14, 2007 21:54:18 GMT -5
Ryan, what ion the hell is wrong with you? A strong rope and an oak tree? Are you out of your mind?
So what are you saying?
Should we hang guys like Christian Binnie and Travis Bagent? Or since your from the south, should it be Harold Owens and Cobra Rhodes and Tom Taylor?
That is without a doubt a racist remark if I ever saw one and I know because I have said similar. You need to have your head examined and possibly be removed from this board.
I find your comments offensive and abusive and repulsing and I for one feel you should be removed.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Jul 14, 2007 21:56:41 GMT -5
Oh wait, your allowed to say things like this because of your religious beliefs and can repent them later in life.
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Post by Tim Layton on Jul 14, 2007 23:20:50 GMT -5
Tim, For the record, I'm going by the Bible...either the Revised New American Bible (Catholic) or the King James Version (Protestant) would be fine. The 240 or so exegetes that put together the Revised New American Bible together all have Ph. D's...some in Theology, some in Philosophy, some in the ancient languages of Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and Aramaic. Besides having close to or greater than genius IQ's, these men are human. They are subject to sexual temptations as we are. Some of those men likely had to deal with the issue of same sex attraction at one time or another. To say that the bible was written by men who didn't really know much about the world wasn't well thought out. The Bible was essentially compiled within approximately 300 years of Jesus' death. Most of the information in the gospels comes directly from Jesus himself. Would you say that Jesus did not know much about the world? I don't blame you for having a strong desire to defend a good friend. That is a noble desire. Like I said, we all have equal dignity in the eyes of God. However, the Bible makes it clear that homosexual acts are an abomination. If your friend and his mate were to live together in a chaste manner, there would be no problem with them being partners. Teachings of the Bible and teachings of the Church can be difficult to accept. Changes of heart and repentance don't happen overnight. I caution you about one thing Tim. Don't use your intelligence and education to defend a position that goes against all moral teaching without first exploring the other side of the position. You've got to be unbiased if you want to get to the truth. I've been on all sides of these moral arguments over the years. I'm 46 now and have lived a fairly full life, some good, some bad. My positions have shifted to the point where I love all goodness and despise all evil. Goodness brings my soul joy. Evil of any kind brings my soul anguish. I would join you in defending your friend from harm or ill treatment, but I couldn't lie to him about the teachings of the Church. I said earlier that I didn't want to start a war here. Some peoples feelings are very strong on both sides of the fence, and are all too willing to fight about it. I have no intention of joining the fight. This hopefully will be the last I say about it. God bless, Bob Hi Bob, First of all, I think I'm on the same page as you in one respect - I don't really have any intention in joining the fight or war either. However, once in awhile I find it is good to have an honest debate with someone with a different view. I don't usually post much on this board, but I had some free time this weekend and felt the need to respond to that post a little while back. Also, the comments you made about joining me in defending my friend from harm or ill treatment are appreciated, it reminded me of one of my favorite quotes "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." When I was referring to the book written by a bunch of men that didn't know much about the world, I was referring to the original authors. Most of the wondrous scientific knowledge that we have now wasn't available to those men. I have no doubt the people that translated and put together the two bibles you mentioned are smart people. I wasn't aware they had close to or greater than genius IQ's, so if you happen to know of anywhere online where I could read about the exegetes that link would be greatly appreciated. Finally, I just wanted to say that I was raised Catholic (my parents weren't strict Catholic, but I was confirmed) and I have explored the other side of the position. I believe my opinions are unbiased, and the studying I have done on the history of the Church has helped shape my current opinions. I love all goodness as well, the only difference among us is what goodness is defined as. Basically, I think it is immoral to tell someone the way they live their life is wrong with the only justification being that some ancient text prohibits it. The bible also gives details about how to treat your slaves. If those who wrote the bible didn't have enough wisdom to realize that slavery is wrong, why should we trust that the bible and/or the Church is a moral authority in this day and age? Anyways, thanks for taking the time to reply to my comments. Take care, Tim
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Post by Ryan Thames on Jul 15, 2007 1:08:24 GMT -5
i wasnt being racist in the least bit pete.
im not racist at all.....i apologize if you found that comment offensive......i have remove my comment. Im sorry. The subject certainly had nothing to do with racism.
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Post by Pete & Tim on Jul 15, 2007 8:38:00 GMT -5
Say what you want Ryan, but this is a racist remark, There aint too many things in this a world a strong rope and an oak tree wont fix Come on, everyone knows what that means and where your from it means one thing.
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Jul 15, 2007 12:39:04 GMT -5
Pete chose the wrong word..Racist...Hey Pete leave Ryan alone, he apologized and took the post down....Its o.k. now.....After 3 pages and only YOU found Ryans post offensive, its easy to see how people of"faith" REALLY feel...Typical!!!! QUITE DISGUSTING but its o.k it in "that" book, the bible...... Side note: I keep reading in these "religious posts quotes" regarding the homosexual ACTS........Homosexuality is more then the ACT itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine WANTING to be gay...IMAGINE BEING GAY WHERE RYAN LIVES...IMAGINE HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE DOWN THERE (LA) WHO FEEL THE SAME AS RYAN DOES.... I say we lynch all 5' male lefty (isn't left handednsess one of the traits, Is that why Ryan maybe a homophobe?...... Can't be) armwrestlers who drive truck, believes in fairytales and hail from Louisiana.......OOPS SORRY I offended.... Pete: Ryan is right, he is NOT a racist, he is an IGNORANT BIGOT!
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Post by Mat Helmer on Jul 15, 2007 16:32:24 GMT -5
I don't think gay people want to be gay, they just are. Maybe their gay-ness is determined in the womb? This is why I found the article interesting - physical differences in straight vs. gay people.
Hermaphrodites... well that could be tough, if a parent chooses the wrong gender. Maybe if there is some science behind all of this and that article is proven valid, maybe parents and doctors will make a better choice based on the body criteria?
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Jul 15, 2007 17:03:32 GMT -5
Hi Bob, In the field of biology, it is a fact that humans are animals. In the scientific community, the theory of evolution by means of natural selection is accepted fact for good reason - there is plenty of evidence to support it. Tim[/quote] "JUST" animals based on biology that isn't true cause Biology can't explain a human concious nor explain why we think things right an wrong. Science has a biblical background. Long time ago just to make it short people couldn't read unless the church taught em too. But as far as us being equal with animals ummm well I never seen an animal make an atom bomb?? Or a plane??? or A toothpick? An there are a lot of holes in the evolution theory that make it seem just unbelievable same way you would say the bible is unbelievable. Even Darwin disagreed with what he had said before he passed away. Now why would the man that made the theory which is JUST a theory disclaim his own theory?
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Jul 15, 2007 17:08:31 GMT -5
An the missing links well there should be a lot of these fossils of them or at least bones an not pig molers an a HUMAN skull trying to MAKE a missing link. Darwin said there should be a lot of the fossils to prove it an there ISN'T? There is not any REAL missing links cause it's not true. There is like one hole supposed missing link an well maybe thats just how that person was made. You don't know how they acted when they lived so to go as far as saying it is something we evolved from seems a little stupid. How do you explain the giant human footprints found beside the dinosaur footprints? In the same time period they are side by side too.
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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 15, 2007 17:11:49 GMT -5
Pete chose the wrong word..Racist...Hey Pete leave Ryan alone, he apologized and took the post down....Its o.k. now.....After 3 pages and only YOU found Ryans post offensive, its easy to see how people of"faith" REALLY feel...Typical!!!! QUITE DISGUSTING but its o.k it in "that" book, the bible...... Side note: I keep reading in these "religious posts quotes" regarding the homosexual ACTS........Homosexuality is more then the ACT itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine WANTING to be gay...IMAGINE BEING GAY WHERE RYAN LIVES...IMAGINE HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE DOWN THERE (LA) WHO FEEL THE SAME AS RYAN DOES.... I say we lynch all 5' male lefty (isn't left handednsess one of the traits, Is that why Ryan maybe a homophobe?...... Can't be) armwrestlers who drive truck, believes in fairytales and hail from Louisiana.......OOPS SORRY I offended.... Pete: Ryan is right, he is NOT a racist, he is an IGNORANT BIGOT! For the record, I took Ryan's post as a joke in bad taste. I don't think Pete was the only one to feel that way, just the only one to speak up. One of my cousins is a homosexual male who was brought up Catholic, but is not fond of the Church's teachings on homosexuality. He has been an English teacher in a local high school for over 30 years and is one of the nicest men I know. The subject of the Church is sensitive, so we don't talk about it much. He goes to all the family Masses and does not hate the Church itself. He knows he's loved by his family and fellow Catholics. That's what really counts. Not even the older people in the family dare to judge him...he's well known as a good man. We also have asked ourselves, what if we were gay? How would we feel about the Churches teachings? Would we still go to Church and all family functions? My cousin is a stand up guy. You made a reference to "religious post quotes," regarding homosexual acts. You stated that homosexuality is more than the act itself. The parts of homosexuality that have nothing to do with the "acts,"are not a problem with sacred scripture. If 2 people love each other and take care of each other in good times and in bad, that would be holy. That would be men and women loving each other as Jesus commanded us. It doesn't matter if it's a homosexual couple. Scripture only condemns the "acts." Before you are tempted to blow my doors in, let me first say that I absolutely acknowledge that I do not have all the answers. I can only share with you what I have been taught all my life. I also would like to share that my wife and I had to make tough decisions with regards to the ban on birth control. Since we decided to follow the Church's teachings, our lives have been enriched beyond your imaginations. The part about sexual discipline has strengthened our marriage and has made the conjugal act the gift from God I was taught that it would be. For the record, I'm not dispensing advice here, just sharing a personal experience. The Church has never let me down. The Church has always led me to the light of Christ. A person's sexual orientation should not keep them away from that light. The city of Chicago has something like 4 groups of gay Catholic men and women that support each other in their struggles with the sacred scripture's ban on the "acts." They are fully Catholic. Some are able to live chastely, some aren't. But they are there to support each other, not judge each other. I strongly believe that we are brothers in Christ and that He knows what He is doing. He knows why people are gay. We don't. He can judge. We cannot. If you think being gay is hard, read the book of Job. God used poor Job to show men for all time that God can do what He wants. This is all His Providence. A lot of stuff in this life isn't fair, but divine justice will prevail in the end. If being gay is a serious hardship, the people who don't love the gays will have a much more serious hardship when they die. We are all commanded to love one another. That is the standard by which we will be judged. A Brother in Christ, Bob
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Post by Tim Layton on Jul 15, 2007 19:50:33 GMT -5
Hi Bob, In the field of biology, it is a fact that humans are animals. In the scientific community, the theory of evolution by means of natural selection is accepted fact for good reason - there is plenty of evidence to support it. Tim "JUST" animals based on biology that isn't true cause Biology can't explain a human concious nor explain why we think things right an wrong. Science has a biblical background. Long time ago just to make it short people couldn't read unless the church taught em too. But as far as us being equal with animals ummm well I never seen an animal make an atom bomb?? Or a plane??? or A toothpick? An there are a lot of holes in the evolution theory that make it seem just unbelievable same way you would say the bible is unbelievable. Even Darwin disagreed with what he had said before he passed away. Now why would the man that made the theory which is JUST a theory disclaim his own theory? [/quote] I merely stated a biological fact. Part of your argument is a straw man which tries to refute a position I never took (I never suggested humans are equals to other animals). The Darwin comment you made is a myth, there isn't any evidence to support that.
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Post by Justin Kaufman on Jul 15, 2007 20:07:31 GMT -5
Why judge at all? If you don't know what the person has gone through or who they are, why judge at all? You don't have all the answers and neither does your "B00K."
I went to school with a few guys and girls, that everyone in our school knew was gay. I'm not talking like junior high or high school either. These kids were different early, so if you think it is just a "CHOICE" I think you are wrong.
Do some choose to be gay, yes. There are some that are what they are.
That's my opinion, it's what I believe. Please refrain from bombarding me with scripture because I won't respond.
One more thing, religious folks.
What will you do if one of your kids is gay?
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 15, 2007 20:30:21 GMT -5
Gog will not judge man after the emotions of a man but after his word which is clear as crystal on this matter.Every thing god says not to do satan instantly tries to get people to do it which is a sin to those who do it.You can talk about this all day and twist it any way you want but his word is clear. I dont hate those people but i will tell them the truth and pray for them even if it offends.People seem to be so woried about offending others but the truth is more importan when it comes to a persons soul
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Post by gambit on Jul 15, 2007 20:55:33 GMT -5
... Should we hang guys like Christian Binnie and Travis Bagent? Or since your from the south, should it be Harold Owens and Cobra Rhodes and Tom Taylor? That is without a doubt a racist remark if I ever saw one and I know because I have said similar. You need to have your head examined ... Since he is from the South? Dude, I am from the South and by saying what you did you wrap all of us in your racist comment. That is discriminatory toward us "in the South" - meaning whites in the south. Do you see where you were just being racist in your comment? Do you think black people were the only ones who were hung in the South? You just admitted to saying a similar thing Ryan did, but you said it in the context in which you're accusing Ryan of. Come on man. You know I would be the first one to call Ryan out on something, but this did not have to do with race. Homosexuality? Yes. Was it wrong to say what he did? Yes. Is he wrong that he believes it? Possibly, but he is also granted his religious opinions with consent from others even though it offends more people than this opinion. Ryan is in an area where he is aware of the presence of the Klan. In recognizing it it seems as if he may share the same views of them, since he is "from the South", but I know he not capable of being racist.
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Post by Chris Kaufman on Jul 15, 2007 22:13:23 GMT -5
This whole post is what pisses me, and I'm sure a lot of people, off about bible thumper. You took an innocent post about some study and made it religious debate. Why can't you just say, "That's interesting"? Or why not post anything at all if you have nothing constructive to say on the topic? Why must you always insert your little religious remarks? There is already quite a few topics in this off topic forum for you to spout your religious beliefs, you don't have to taint them all. I'm assuming that the original poster didn't intend to make this a hell, fire, and brimstone debate. Get over yourselfs.
And for the record, just because it's "YOUR" truth, doesn't mean it's everyone else's.
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