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Post by Tim Layton on Jul 20, 2007 0:04:18 GMT -5
No I don't dismiss gravity. But it's still not a solid fact you can't see gravity. As far as the animal no matter how many supposed genius scientist you say believe we are an animal and an ape that makes them idiots IMO. Im not an ape never will be you can if you want to buddy. Just not my style. There are so many holes in the evolution theory. I find natural selection to be unbelievable just as ya'll find God to be unbelievable just trust me when I say one day you will know what I mean an it may not be long from now. Just keep watching the news an listening. Richard Dawkins is an IDIOT for saying that. WOW he has PHD's an is a genius to some people to others he is an idiot. As far as IQ Steven Hawkins is the smartest man in the world he can't explain the human concious either. They don't even know if the brain controls the human concious. There are people like ya'll that don't like to admit that we don't know everything so you hold onto wild theorys an in turn say I hold onto wild fantasies. Im done talking for good on this thread. First of all, back on page 9 you said, "Thats all I got to say about it. Im done." Then you continued until now, and you are done again. Maybe you and I have different definitions of "done". Kind of like the Pope in the Catholic Church - he is infallible, until he makes a mistake he apologizes for, and then he gets to be infallible all over again. You said, "But it's still not a solid fact you can't see gravity." I agree with your statement, however, you don't need to see something through human eyes in order to recognize that it is a fact. I think I have arrived at the conclusion of my argument with you Johnny. Clearly, you are desperate and can't back up your illogical argument - that is why you resort to the ad hominem argument (An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man" consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.) According to you, Richard Dawkins isn't even an idiot, but an IDIOT! (IN ALL CAPS!!!!). Any holes in the evolution theory (according to you) can be filled by reading a book on evolution (which you clearly haven't done and/or comprehended). Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. Take care, Tim
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Post by Tim Layton on Jul 20, 2007 0:54:32 GMT -5
The body of knowledge in the field of biology appears large to our limited intellect, yet, we haven't scratched the surface in relation to the entire body of physical knowledge that exists in the field of biology. Think micro. We know a little about the cells and how they interact, what the components of the cells are, how nutrients enter and wastes leave. We know about elect ons and protons and neutrons. We know a little about the particles that make up the electrons and protons and neutrons. But what about the particles that make up those particles? And the particles that make up the particles that make up those particles? You see, infinity goes forward and toward "zero." In relation to the infinite body of science we call biology, we know very little. We should keep our egos in check. All good scientists do. A scientist, by definition, asks questions, not answers definitively. Classifications and the like are not definitive bodies of knowledge. They are theories to be discussed and analyzed, but never to be taken as absolute. Even the field of mathematics has assumptions and definitions that have to be agreed upon before you can state something simple like 1+1=2. What does the numeral one represent? What is a numeral? What is the definition of adding? What exactly does the symbol "equal" mean? Does = mean exactness? What is the definition of "is?' etc. The Bible, on the other hand, contains inspired writing. The writing is inspired by God. The contents, while at times difficult to interpret, represent absolute truth as revealed to us by God. Since there are many young men involved in this discussion, I urge serious humility for you until you have lived a while. The young college grad is in the most dangerous position...lots of knowledge, but virtually no wisdom. Wisdom comes with age to those who seek it. You won't find it on Wikipedia. God bless, Bob OH! And wisdom never comes to the proud of heart. It only comes to the humble. Because of God's love for you, you will experience all sorts of suffering in this life. Ask God for help through the tough stuff, and humility will come. If you push God away (ie., He doesn't exist) you will become increasingly bitter. When the bitterness gets strong, you will grow in hatred or seek secular psychological help. The feel good meds will relieve some of your tension from the bitterness, but won't address the root cause. Humble pie is the only way to go my friends!!! I agree with most of your first two paragraphs, with a notable exception being the definition of scientist. There are many definitions of scientist - I personally think "A person having expert knowledge of one or more sciences, especially a natural or physical science, with knowledge attained by use of the scientific method" is an accurate description. As for the Bible, that is something we have in the recent past disagreed on. There simply is no evidence "God" exists, let alone that the Bible is inspired by "God." You said, "I urge serious humility for you until you have lived a while. The young college grad is in the most dangerous position...lots of knowledge, but virtually no wisdom. Wisdom comes with age to those who seek it. You won't find it on Wikipedia." You don't have to be old to be wise (last I checked, the definition of wise is "Having the ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting." Being old isn't a requirement. The link I provided about apes on wikipedia was what I said it was, a brief summary. I wasn't trying to imply that wisdom is found on wikipedia - just that for people with little scientific knowledge it is a good start. In response to, "Because of God's love for you, you will experience all sorts of suffering in this life. Ask God for help through the tough stuff, and humility will come. If you push God away (ie., He doesn't exist) you will become increasingly bitter. When the bitterness gets strong, you will grow in hatred or seek secular psychological help. The feel good meds will relieve some of your tension from the bitterness, but won't address the root cause. Humble pie is the only way to go my friends!!!" - I have to say this: I don't need feel good meds, I don't have tension or bitterness, and any suffering I have overcome in this life I have dealt with successfully by myself with help from family and friends, not fairy tales. If by assuming God exists and the Catholic church is right on social issues improves your life - I couldn't be happier for you. You seem like a good guy that cares about humanity and your family, and judging from your statements in your second paragraph, you dabble in philosophy as well. I think it would be best if I finish at this point with one last quote (I really am done with this thread), since I feel that I have said all I can say that is of value to this discussion. "Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends and astronomy begins." - Christopher Hitchens Take care everyone, Tim
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Post by enginterzi on Jul 20, 2007 5:04:13 GMT -5
have scientists ever been wrong about their ideas?i remember of Stephen Hawkings admitting that he was wrong about his thoughts about (i guess) black holes.so if he would have been dead before he realised his mistake then we would still think that his wrong idea to be the truth.in fact i still think that his new idea can be wrong too.what percentage of our brains are we able to use to claim to be correct about our works?have scientists ever used false evidences in the past to prove evolution?so if they really believed in evolution to be the fact then why did they need to use false evindences?even in this point we see GOD's presence as goodness against evil.we can talk and believe in things (which are physical) with our small brain capacity but how about spiritual things such as goodness and evil,happiness and misery,joy and sadness,love and hate,wisdom and foolishness?where did they all come from?do we teach and educate our children when they are growing in home,school or anywhere else or they all learn by themselves?so what gives us the idea that we are not taught by a higher being who created all of us?everything we follow is HIS ways,just pay attention and you will see that human rights are based on mostly religious principles.it says you shall not kill,why do we think that killing is bad if we are coming from monkeys?do they get jailed for killing?how about stealing?why is that wrong?who can say that it is wrong?in the nature the stronger one gets whatever he-she wants,so why not using the law of animals instead of following mainly religious teachings (except the rules that we do not wanna obey because of our high pride).who can force me to believe that killing,raping,stealing are wrong?another human being who borns and dies without his control??why do we cover our bodies?why not walking around naked if that is how our origin is?if homosexuality can be explained by using animals as examples then can i also use animals as examples to explain and acquit the killings between human beings (oh sorry i meant to say "between apes")? one more thing,i do believe that what we call science is the wisdom and will of GOD ; www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html
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Post by Bill Maenza on Jul 20, 2007 14:18:46 GMT -5
Amen Engin!
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Post by Bob Paradis on Jul 20, 2007 14:47:23 GMT -5
My friend Engin comes through!!! Thanks for all that.
A group of think tank scientists have recently disclosed that the odds of creation as it exists, in the balance in which it exists to sustain life as we know it, being the result of random events, starting with the "Big Bang" theory, and following with Darwin's theory of evolution, are mathematically impossible. In other words, the odds against it are so large, that in the field of mathematics, the idea of this world being a random sequence of events is impossible. So for all you bright young lads who are so sure of your immoral lifestyles, think again. The unease in your soul is a tension between you and your Creator. No amount of rationalization will make it go away. If you are too young to have experienced the tension, give it time. The further you separate yourself from God, the greater the anxiety will get. A true intellect will question himself. Never stop asking yourself: Why do I exist? Or, why did God make me? Answer: To get to know Him, love Him, and serve Him in this life, so that you can spend eternity with Him in the next.
A life without God in it is a self serving, self seeking, and self centered waste of a life. I started to get a clue in life when my mother died. I was 25. But the exact age doesn't matter. Some people don't get a clue until they face death at 80 something years old. It doesn't matter. It's never too late. That's the important thing to gain from this post. Live your life to the best of your ability, and never stop trying to learn. Once you conclude that there is no God (which you can't possibly prove) you've closed your mind to a fullness of life that you cannot yet imagine.
All of this posted in a spirit of love, not in a spirit of argumentation.
Just for the record, I have never studied Philosophy or Theology. I pray when I write. The reader belongs to God. I gain nothing by writing and I hate typing. May your lives be full of the joy of knowing God!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob
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Post by Robert Bishop on Jul 20, 2007 14:53:59 GMT -5
Good stuff and i also believe wisdom comes in diferent times diferent ways to diferent people.A man can be wise in some things [like money]and a fool in other things[like religion]
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Post by Ian "The Grippler" Carnegie on Jul 20, 2007 18:25:11 GMT -5
were all fools trust me! But I'm surprised that some Gay activist group hasn't come aboard yet and set the record "straight" ?
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