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Post by Gary Roberts on Jul 2, 2004 3:40:50 GMT -5
This was a very interesting documentary. eye-opening to say the least.
slanted but full of interesting facts that make you wonder just who is running our country.
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Post by Christopher Myers on Jul 5, 2004 8:58:21 GMT -5
Gary ,
That movie was great I really wonder how Moore got some of that footage ? When Bush was in the classroom sitting there like a moron without Daddy to tell him what to do it was great
Christopher Myers
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Post by James on Jul 5, 2004 9:59:07 GMT -5
Now I know that I usually come off as an extreme leftist, but I have to say one thing: you have to remember that this documentary (it isn't really) is coming from the perspective of a liberal to serve a purpose (to get Bush out of office). I am not a big George Bush fan, everyone knows that, but I am a purist when it comes to documentary film. I like truth to be represented. I know that there is always some semblance of perspective in film, but the goal of a documentary filmmaker is to document truth. Present reality, verisimilitude. Facts can be skewed to make the director more of an auteur. That is what is going on in Moore's case. Though it is still something that deserves a gander.  Just my two cents. Probably just worth a penny  |
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Post by Christopher Myers on Jul 5, 2004 13:37:39 GMT -5
James any form of media has the potential to sway an opinion it is the viewers resposability to be knowlegable enough to know the facts and only be swayed when truth is brought to their attention I am not a conspirasist by nature but the documenty slash movie does have some interesting points and a lot of well thought out humor . James when I was a kid 7-10 I lived in the middle east ( IRAN as a matter of fact ) I got out 3 months before the hostage situation even as a kid I watched the news and media try to convince me what I knew and saw for 2 and a hlaf years was not true how Iran was for real and how it was portrayed were and are not the same .... propaganda is very powerful ... and most people way way way too gullable. Beleive half of what you see and none of what you hear Christopher Myers |
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Post by James on Jul 5, 2004 19:09:34 GMT -5
Yes, in two circles, media and armwrestling. |
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Post by Scott Latella on Jul 5, 2004 21:26:54 GMT -5
The Spider-Man movie stays true to the comics story line ;D
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Post by Christopher Myers on Jul 6, 2004 7:32:43 GMT -5
Scott,
I think that the movie rocked ( Spidy )
Christopher Myers
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Post by Chris Coletti on Jul 6, 2004 12:33:44 GMT -5
Spidey was also based more on fact There is a movie coming out this summer titled "Michael Moore Hates America" Can't wait to see that one also. Another great "Documentary" Based on facts ;D |
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Post by James on Jul 6, 2004 13:54:53 GMT -5
Moore doesn't hate America. He hates George Bush and most Republicans. He is also not too fond of violence (see Bowling for Columbine).  |
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Post by simon on Jul 6, 2004 15:04:36 GMT -5
Like George Bush not like George Bush or Republicans, what does it really matter, our government is woeful, Don’t get me wrong this is the greatest country on earth in my opinion, founded on extraordinary principles but our current system of government is an antiquated, ineffectual series of circumstances, legalese, and loopholes. There is a comedian named Lewis Black that referred to the Republicans as the party of bad ideas and the Democrats as the party of no ideas. I think this is a pretty accurate statement. It really does not matter to the citizens of this country which self indulgent undeserving nitwit is in office or any office because for the most part they all have too many things going on in their own personal agendas to do more than feign one iota of concern about us.
The system is broken yet we continue to manage it as is, with yet more overly complicated legislation, then we blame the popularity contest winner of a batch of people that are not qualified or ethically sound enough to hold the position. This is akin to expecting a Dayton 500 win out of a 1900’s Ford motor with decades of high performance techno junk tacked on it, then blaming the spark plug when it does not run well.
I guess my point is that people like Moore are not much different than everybody else, they just want to improve their lot in life, so they go after already easy targets to the fullest extent they can, and they hope to make money doing so, not much different than what people did to Clinton. I dont buy the "I am trying to get him out of office for the good of all of us BS" from Moore.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Gary Roberts on Jul 6, 2004 18:37:55 GMT -5
The movie is obviously very slanted. Yes... but some of the most incriminating video had nothing to do with Moores' opinions.
Documentaries don't necessarily have to be truth. People opinions and views of our world can't always be determined to be of any certain truth but by hearing enough opinions we can come to our own conclusion.
Moores opinion is that we were only given one side of the story relating to the War in Iraq and his goal was to give us the other side.
If you think about it...both sides were just as slanted.
The bottom line for me was that after watching that movie I don't think Bush could run an armwrestling tournament let alone our country.
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Post by simon on Jul 6, 2004 19:23:07 GMT -5
Debating alleged facts when it comes to politics or an alleged political documentary is like debating the validity of a happening in a Harry Potter movie, pointless, it is all fiction portrayed in the manner the director of the scene intended it to be, with an eye to what he is trying to sell you on further along in the movie, either Moore’s version or the governments version, they both carry with them that same eye toward what they are trying to sway you toward on down the road to help facilitate their plan.
I am mostly in agreement with you Gary, as I said these individuals in my opinion are not the best people for the job and blaming them for doing things that most of us find unacceptable is like blaming the fox after we let him guard the hen house just because the proper animal for the job did not want it, it really is our fault for putting them in there in the first place.
Don't get me wrong I liked Bush, I thought he had a chance to become the greatest president in the history of our country after 9/11 but he took a route more suited toward maintaining his continued political mediocrity rather than one of greatness.
So Gary in your bottom line you accepted Moore’s alleged view after watching his version of the truth, I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but isn’t it scary that this is the way this world will always work because we will never really know the truth about anything so we are forced to attach ourselves to what ever truth mostly falls in line with our existing position/political affiliation or which ever one compelled us the most?
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Post by leonard on Jul 6, 2004 20:03:43 GMT -5
If it is slanted  then how can you trust the "facts"?  Anything radical left or right should be viewed with skepticism. ;D |
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Post by gambit on Jul 6, 2004 21:51:49 GMT -5
When Bush was in the classroom sitting there like a moron without Daddy to tell him what to do it was great Can you imagine being told that two planes flew into the trade towers, possibly killing everyone in them, along with the passengers of the planes and people in the streets? Can you, with an honest answer, tell me what you would have done in his immediate position? Man, what a load he must have felt coming down on his shoulders! Can you imagine the rush of, "what ifs", "who dids", "Whys" that went through his mind? Cut the man a break. True, he may have been wondering what his father would do, but I can only speculate that he felt to be the loneliest man on the face of the Earth at that particular moment. Heck, Clinton would have hunted for Hilary for answers of what needed to be done. The Spider-Man movie stays true to the comics story line ;D I completely agree!! I guess my point is that people like Moore are not much different than everybody else, they just want to improve their lot in life, so they go after already easy targets to the fullest extent they can, and they hope to make money doing so, not much different than what people did to Clinton. I dont buy the "I am trying to get him out of office for the good of all of us BS" from Moore. The sad thing is someone allowed it to be made into a ballyhoo, not a documentary, all for the dollar. Moore doesn't hate America. He hates George Bush and most Republicans. Wow, what a campaign push for Kerry! ;D ;D ;D Documentaries don't necessarily have to be truth. People opinions and views of our world can't always be determined to be of any certain truth but by hearing enough opinions we can come to our own conclusion. The bottom line for me was that after watching that movie I don't think Bush could run an armwrestling tournament let alone our country. Documentaries do not have to be the truth? Does that mean facts are eliminated, since they represent the truth? Gary, thank the Lord we didn't have Gore in Bush's place, he would have gotten the, "Lock-box" out. Debating alleged facts when it comes to politics or an alleged political documentary is like debating the validity of a happening in a Harry Potter movie, pointless, it is all fiction portrayed in the manner the director of the scene intended it to be, with an eye to what he is trying to sell you on further along in the movie, either Moore’s version or the governments version, they both carry with them that same eye toward what they are trying to sway you toward on down the road to help facilitate their plan. I am mostly in agreement with you Gary, as I said these individuals in my opinion are not the best people for the job and blaming them for doing things that most of us find unacceptable is like blaming the fox after we let him guard the hen house just because the proper animal for the job did not want it, it really is our fault for putting them in there in the first place. Don't get me wrong I liked Bush, I thought he had a chance to become the greatest president in the history of our country after 9/11 but he took a route more suited toward maintaining his continued political mediocrity rather than one of greatness. So Gary in your bottom line you accepted Moore’s alleged view after watching his version of the truth, I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but isn’t it scary that this is the way this world will always work because we will never really know the truth about anything so we are forced to attach ourselves to what ever truth mostly falls in line with our existing position/political affiliation or which ever one compelled us the most? I agree with pretty much everything you said, Simon. We, as the public, have to consume what the media disgorges to us. They inform us of only what they want us to know. Creative editing anyone? ;D Hmmm... |
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Post by Chris Coletti on Jul 6, 2004 22:14:43 GMT -5
Chris,
If he hates violence then how do you explain his stand on partial birth abortions?
Any extreme, Left..right...Christian...Muslim etc. are not to be taken serious but to be watched carefully.
An extreme "right" book you should read is titled "Why the left hates America" It comes across with what some might read as great ideas. To the untrained eye these books could be shown as facts but they have just as much garbage as all of Moors movies combined...Bowling for Columbine? Entertaining but again greatly twisted. Roger and me. His first fray into garbage pushing it off as documentary. I think listening to Michael Moore as a truthful reporter would be like listening to Rush Limbaugh and saying he knows what's on Kerry's mind.
I am afraid that as long as pushers of crap keep getting the audience they will continue pushing the crap...from either side.
Go see the movie Brave Heart. It is shown and peddled as a factual History of William Wallace. Then go do your own research on William Wallace and all the other historical characters in that movie. You will be greatly dissapointed.....Then do the same with Michael Moores movies. They are written in the same manner.
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then how can you trust the "facts"? 