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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 16:19:47 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 3, 2005 16:19:47 GMT -5
When you respond with whether Mary sinned or not please identify the difference between sin and The Sin Nature that everyone is born in except Jesus. Becuase he was born of a virgin. She was not.
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 17:49:04 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 3, 2005 17:49:04 GMT -5
Ryan,
Mary did not ascend - she was assumed. Meaning this, when her time on this earth was over, her uncorrupted body and soul were taken up to heaven by God.
Mary was born without sin - see the Immaculate Conception. This should explain it. I will touch lightly. We agree that Jesus never sinned. We agree that sin never coursed through His veins. If Mary had sinned, He would have sin in him through her pregnancy. Oversimplified, I know. But I won't try to justify why God does what he does. Hopefully, I will find that out another day.
Once again, we don't pray to the Blessed Mother for fulfillment of prayers. Only that she interceed on our behalf. That is all - cut print. We pray for eachother right? How much more likely would our prayers be answered if our Saviors mother was also praying for us? Food for thought even for you!
Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 18:04:20 GMT -5
Post by simon on Feb 3, 2005 18:04:20 GMT -5
Though we go back and forth on religion I enjoy it and I am impressed by the breath of knowledge and how it is conveyed.
This is from another post I made but I will put it here as well.
Did you guys know that the immaculate conception was not declared by the church until centuries after the death of Christ yet it is considered fact now.
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 18:25:26 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 3, 2005 18:25:26 GMT -5
So your saying mary is the daughter of God? and the mother of Jesus? If im not mistaken the blood of the mother and the blood of the baby in the womb are not the same? Someone correct me please. how does that go/ They do not share the same blood. right? Or if that is wrong check this out, if God can create a child within a virgin then God can seperate the blood and mary was only a carrying agent if you will of the son of God. Wouldnt this make Mary a begotten child of God. thus making mary another messiah and brother of Jesus and Mother of Jesus and she couldve died on the cross for your sins. and you say you dont worship her? If you look at it like that marys mother wouldve had sin to and mary wouldve had her sin in her. unless this was a generation of asexual women from the first child of eve before eve sinned. Am i wrong? Simon? Bill? Trying to think logically as you both think i am incapable of doing
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 18:37:09 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 3, 2005 18:37:09 GMT -5
Simon, The Immaculate Conception was only recognized centuries later, but it had been considered "common knowledge" until then.
Ryan, No, not a begotten daughter. She was conceived without original sin and remained pure to her assumption. She was clearly the mother of Jesus. She was not a sister to Him. She was and is not His equal. Never was, never will be. She could not of died for our sins as she wan not part of the Trinity.
No, we still don't worship her...
Come on Ryan, we know you are capable of thinking logically. (You just choose not to! j/k).
Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 18:52:33 GMT -5
Post by simon on Feb 3, 2005 18:52:33 GMT -5
And you know that how Bill? Do you have a text that was written prior to the recognition of this point that shows that it was common knowledge? Reading a modern book claiming it was common knowledge that was clearly written or printed after it was recognized is not really evidence that it was in fact common knowledge. It was also common knowledge back then that you could drill a hole in someone’s head to let the demons out.
Just playing devils advocate here Bill, forgive the pun. ;D
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 20:09:55 GMT -5
Post by Tony Carpenter on Feb 3, 2005 20:09:55 GMT -5
Back to the Ghost topic. There are several Ghost stories that are at my College. One that people call "The Walker", It's an old lady that walks from one of the dorm building to this one tree. But when she gets to the one tree, her destination, she doesn't come out the other side. People who have seen her go to the tree and nothings there. Some say that they have seen the lady dissapear. The tree is to thin and the first couple of branches are about 10 feet up, so no one could climb it.
Secondly, The dorm building "Old Dorm" is a building that has burned down several times. During one break when only the few people that are given permission to stay here they were told to stay in Old Dorm. During one night all of them got together and while they were playing games like Dungeons and Dragons they heard someone running down the hall outside there door. They opened their door looked out it, there was still the noise, but there was no one there. A second later the door at the end of the hall opened wide open and slammed shut.
Third, I few people hear were suppose to go to the attic of Old Dorm and when they inspected it. According to them stuff started flying all over the place in the attic.
I don't know what to believe when it comes to these stories so don't count me as a believer, but I did want to add a couple of stories for you Simon seeing as how this thread has turned into a verbal fight.
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 20:40:39 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 3, 2005 20:40:39 GMT -5
Simon,
This has been passed down through the teachings of the church. I don't believe that it was made up to suit peoples wants or needs. If you follow your line of thought, how do you believe the bible is true? Can it be scientifically proven? At some point you have to have faith. The ability to believe what you can not see.
You can't let demons out by drilling holes in their heads?
Tony, I don't know any good ghost stories, but I do believe that there *could be* spirits without homes.
Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 21:45:07 GMT -5
Post by Steven Lareau on Feb 3, 2005 21:45:07 GMT -5
You can't let demons out by drilling holes in their heads? You can't!? Well I better stop doing it then....
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 23:27:11 GMT -5
Post by Tony Carpenter on Feb 3, 2005 23:27:11 GMT -5
So that's why ooze is always falling on the table when I pull you ;D
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 23:37:37 GMT -5
Post by Mike West on Feb 3, 2005 23:37:37 GMT -5
Sorry Ryan, I didn't count Jesus in my list I assumed everyone had already figured Him in, I was talking others than the Son of God....should've been more clear. I too am interested in finding out where it says Mary was without sin
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 23:40:33 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 3, 2005 23:40:33 GMT -5
I saw a program where people in america still practice the drilling of the holes in the heads. it cost big bucks. It was rather disgusting.
Simon and Bill, You still havent addressed If mary had to be born of a virgin so that sin wouldnt be in her blood. Would her mother have had to be born of a virgin and so on? becuase sin would have came through her to, if that be the case. A lineage of asexual women dating back to eve before she sinned.Of course it wasnt till after they sinned that they had children.
IT IS NOT BIBLICALY NOR IS IT HISTORICALLY CORRECT TO SAY THAT MARY WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN. ALSO IT WAS NOT SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT.
granted the idea of a miracle defies science and natural laws.
I think mary is a decendant of David. Who had sin.
This is one the "authority" of the Catholic church is clearly wrong and extremly falible.
Do you or do you not call mary the "redemptrist"? The female of redeemer.
and to address and earlier statement:
I Identify the existance of the church. I identify the roles of the five fold ministry. I believe we need a place to gather together and worship. doesnt matter where.
The nation of Isreal for so long wasnt ruled by a king but they cried and demanded God for a king to rule them. Before they were given a King the nation was specifically ruled by God. But man has a tendency and a need for religion and ritual (they want to control things). And what happens when we place our faithfulness under man? Spiritual abuse and corruption.
Same concept with this type of church setting Catholic or protestant. God wants to rule the church on an individual level and within a congregation. But men want to take the power away from guide and then we deprive ourselves a true walk and relationship with him.
Im not against anything and everything that isnt "my way" I am against whatever pulls and hinders people from experiencing God.
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Ghosts
Feb 3, 2005 23:56:32 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 3, 2005 23:56:32 GMT -5
Here is an experience with a spirt:
One sunday morning when i was in church I was about 14-15. The church service was awesome. Anointed music and worship. I look up and my aunt and everyone around me is talking funny. i cant understand a word theyre saying i look up at my mom in confusion. She gives me aword of comfort and I am at peace with it. Later That same spirit came over me soo strong i couldnt stop weeping yet i was so utterly filled with joy i couldnt explain it to you. I did not talk funny but knew i that Spirit was there and was strong and evident.
About 3-4 years later I was in anther church service, we were in praise and worship it got deep and the minister explained more about that spirit i felt years before. And he used this scripture.
ACTS 2:4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
I then understood and it was released in me and I opened my mouth and yeilded my tounge to him as he gave me utterance to speak i spoke in languages that i have never known. As JESUS CHRIST BAPTIZED me in the Holy Spirit. As John the baptist said in
John 1: 32. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
This is the only true Spirit i am interested in. He wil fill you with such a joy and a peace. unlike your other "sightings" that fil you with fear.
2 Timothy 1:7. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
AMEN!
Simon, this is an encounter with a spirit that doesnt just give one syllabal statements, but a whole new language! And its not a brain fart of an image in the corner of my eye, i experience it everyday of my life. Not you or anyone could ever convince me otherwise of this type of experience. as much as noone could convince you that you dont have a daughter she is apart of your everyday life.
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 0:26:33 GMT -5
Post by Tony Carpenter on Feb 4, 2005 0:26:33 GMT -5
Even though I don't agree with all of the Catholic Churches teaching, they definately have quite a few advantages when it comes to the scriptures
1)Hundreds of Scholars and Theologans to work on interpretation
2)They possess the scriptural text pieces and scrolls
3)They have hundreds of scriptural pieces that aren't released to the public.
4)THEY PUT TOGETHER ORIGINAL VOLUME THAT YOU'RE QUOTING!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic Church was the organization to put the Bible into volumes
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 6:09:15 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 4, 2005 6:09:15 GMT -5
Mike, I'll be happy to find my references for you. You can find one for me...where does it say by sripture alone?
Bill
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