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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 8:01:22 GMT -5
Post by Steven Lareau on Feb 4, 2005 8:01:22 GMT -5
I really like the communion wafers. I'd snack on them while watching tv if I could.
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 8:08:56 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 8:08:56 GMT -5
Steven I have some in my room ;D
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 8:21:30 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 4, 2005 8:21:30 GMT -5
Steven, You can have all you want! Just come to Mass ;-)
Bill PS: Ryan - you can have the last word now :-)
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 9:34:00 GMT -5
Post by Mike West on Feb 4, 2005 9:34:00 GMT -5
Bill, 'where does it say by sripture alone?' what are you asking, you've lost me on that one
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 9:56:48 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 4, 2005 9:56:48 GMT -5
Mike,
You wanted to know where in Scripture that it spoke about the Assumption. My question is where does it say by Scripture alone?
Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 14:11:09 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 14:11:09 GMT -5
still no scriptures on the conception of mary?
So Becuase the catholic church says so then it will be?
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 14:42:07 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 4, 2005 14:42:07 GMT -5
Ryan, Tell me where in the bible says by scripture alone?
Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 15:39:00 GMT -5
Post by Mike West on Feb 4, 2005 15:39:00 GMT -5
Bill, if your not getting your info or teachings of the Assumption from the Word of God ( Scriptures ) where are you getting it ?
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 15:41:47 GMT -5
Post by Bill Maenza on Feb 4, 2005 15:41:47 GMT -5
Mike, You first with my request :-) Bill
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 16:15:56 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 16:15:56 GMT -5
I know this wont be enough to satisfy you but here are these scriptures.
Matthew 22: 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
You must line up with the scriptures or you are in err
Matthew 26:56. But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.
If Mary was born of a virgin this is a BIG thing shouldnt it be in the scriptures that ALL of the prophets AND JESUS so relied upon?
Luke 24:27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:32. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures.
The scriptures are pretty powerful they are the words of God. Jesus so relied upon them it was his desire that we are educated in the scriptures NOTHING AND NOONE ELSE. If anything goes against them it is of the DEVIL.
Luke 24:45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Something important here.
Romans 15: 4. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Again dependancy on the scriptures.
Galations 4:30. Nevertheless what saith the scripture?
Again dependancy?
2 Timothy 3: 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Key word here inspiration means God-breathed. God spoken as my words are spoken out my mouth so the scriptures are God-Breathed.
Matthew 4:4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
to back up the scripture ALONE thing it would be these:
Matthew 4:4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
2 Timothy 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
As you see, the prophets, Jesus, The apostles stood firmly on the spriptures ALONE, please give me one reference where they relyied on anything else. and trust me there were many more I had to be very selective.
The word of God declares that it is the Word of God and Jesus stated in his temptation that "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." again i bring you attention to John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
To question the scriptures you question God. To rely on anything else is to remove your faith and trust from God.
If you dont see that this is clear. Then we must end this conversation if possible.
Simon your nuetral perspective is welcomed. I would like for you to comment from the perspective if there be a God and this is his word. What do these scriptures say?
Again if Mary was born of a virgin i would think it wouldve been prophesied in the scripture. Where is it?
If Mary was born of a virgin Did she know it? and if she knew can you explain this passage of scripture?
Matthew 1: 18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Why did Joseph consider to divorce her for fear of making her a public example? Wouldnt he have known that she was to give birth to christ as a virgin? Wouldnt she have known? Why would the angel have to have had this meeting?
Luke 1:27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Again why would Mary have been afraid and why wouldnt she have know God showed favor to know she was give birth to a child as a virgin?
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 16:16:49 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 16:16:49 GMT -5
I just took a while with that one you better read all of it...j/k
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 16:43:41 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 16:43:41 GMT -5
If you refuse to rely on the scriptures alone lets rely on a lil logical thinking. Ive mentioned this before but you have yet to contest it.
You say that mary had to been born of a virgin in order for Jesus not to recieve sin.
If this is the case Then her mother wouldve had to been born of a virgin. her grandmother woud have concieved of a virgin. and her great grandmother would have concieved of a virgin. ALLL THEY WAY BACK TO EVE BEFORE SHE SINNED.
This wouldve been a lineage of asexual women (no men in the lineage whatsovever) popping out babies for no reason without sin.
and guess what Mary is of the lineage of David!! the line of asexual women is biblically unscriptural, historically incorrect and scientifically immpossible and according to modern knowledge is highly unlikly, we would here about these women on cnn everyday.
The bible teaches that until sin enter the human race there was no death. so these women without sin would al still be alive given the possibility they remained sinless.
I think it would be fairly obvious to the entire world if we had an entire nation populated with immortal women popping out babies.
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 18:35:43 GMT -5
Post by simon on Feb 4, 2005 18:35:43 GMT -5
Ryan but this entire logic is predicated upon the belief that we are all born of sin because Adam and Eve sinned, what was gods reaction to Adam and Eve sinning did he know it was going to happen but he allowed it anyway, he gave them a chance and they failed? Regardless when god wiped the earth clean and altered Noah and his children to allow them to repopulate the earth, why would he leave the sin in them, why not either remove it or start anew with creatures not born of the linage of Adam and Eve? Why purposefully undermine your own actions to correct the failings of the first attempt? Let’s change one thing and just see how it plays out. Say that Adam and Eve sinned but their offspring were not born with sin, and in turn no child subsequently born would be born in sin regardless of its conception, they are innocent and they would all be left to make decisions for themselves, that sounds reasonable, some sin and some don’t, so now how badly does this possible scenario undermine the success of the religion? I mean people have to sin first to NEED to become part of this religion and so as long as they are good average children and then later in life they can continue to convince themselves that they are not sinning then they do not need to follow along or give themselves to god, and that my friend is bad for business. On the flipside if the church claims that all children are born into sin well what choice do you have you have to go along because you were born with the need to repent. It is like saying all cars are sold without tires, what choice do you have, because of this everyone needs to buy new tires when they buy a car, now wouldn’t you like to be the guy that owns the tire shop in that analogy? What is more logical, children are free from sin and innocent until they make decisions to the contrary or that god allows you to be born already with one loss on the B side and you will have to give yourself to him to have a chance?
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 18:58:42 GMT -5
Post by simon on Feb 4, 2005 18:58:42 GMT -5
I would love to go and stay at a place that is alleged to be haunted, but not where someone was trying to prove anything to me. Just me and my own methods of testing these claims.
With so much activity why is there no film?
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Ghosts
Feb 4, 2005 19:30:07 GMT -5
Post by Ryan Thames on Feb 4, 2005 19:30:07 GMT -5
I understand your logic of why you believe what you believe.
i was aking you to comment on the logic that if what christians and catholics agree on that every one is born in sin is true, the concept of the lineage of immortal baby popping women is not logical. And the idea of mary having to be born of a virgin is contradictory to the teachings of the bible. Given if for some reaon you believed it were true.
Its a simple a+b=c math equation. you dont have to have 2 of something and 3 of something to have 5 of something. you can do the math that 2+3=5. That probably didnt make sense. but i would hope you understand what im trying to say
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