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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 1, 2010 10:27:52 GMT -5
Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rick asked ENGIN questions about the Muslim religion. Why can he not answer without huge debates? The Muslim religion is THE MUSLIM RELIGION. Why does it have to be debated as to whether it's right, wrong, etc? Rick asked a question, Engin answered. Now it's open discussion buttmunch EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!! Open discussion would be a wonderful thing to have happen. Telling people they are wrong for their beliefs is another. Especially when the people that are saying the beliefs are wrong are not even educated in that particular religion.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 10:46:40 GMT -5
Rick asked a question, Engin answered. Now it's open discussion buttmunch EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!! Open discussion would be a wonderful thing to have happen. Telling people they are wrong for their beliefs is another. Especially when the people that are saying the beliefs are wrong are not even educated in that particular religion. Have you even read this thread? The majority of it is engin sharing how he feels Christians are wrong. And I am always up for the discussion. It doesn't offend me. So I hope your Tude is directed more at him than me this time. I am not at all discussing Islam.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 10:51:58 GMT -5
And for the record I do have a formal education in religion.
Christianity and Islam and several others.
Just because I don't respond to everything in a post doesn't mean I can't.
No I don't know everything about either. I don't claim to. There's only so much you can be taught in a classroom.
That's why I like these discussions.
If you don't like it why the heck did you click on this thread?
By now I figured you would know better eh?
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Post by Karen Bean on Aug 1, 2010 11:08:52 GMT -5
And for the record I do have a formal education in religion. Christianity and Islam and several others. Really? You graduated from college with a doctorate in religion? Congratulations Ryan. What did you degree in - Divinity or Theology?
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 11:17:53 GMT -5
I have not graduated. I plan to one day.
Time and money are a hinderance.
But that doesn't mean I haven't had a formal education.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 11:53:30 GMT -5
I must say, this discussion has been very very civil and respectful on all counts. Until you chimed in with the tude. But I forgive you...
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 1, 2010 14:48:17 GMT -5
The majority of it is engin sharing how he feels Christians are wrong. . Ryan, i was asked a question by Rick Laton about at what point i do not believe in Bible and i answered his question.i meant no disrespect as i also believe in Jesus as the Christ.i apoligise if anyone felt offended and i am ready to delete any post that offends anyone.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Aug 1, 2010 15:48:55 GMT -5
Interesting reads Engin I found nothing offensive in there, your welcome to share as much as we are. I find we all have gotten alot better at not taking things personal imo. I learn a little bit about God from anything posted about him. His influence is in everything so you can learn a little more from every thing around you.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 1, 2010 16:42:08 GMT -5
Interesting reads Engin I found nothing offensive in there, your welcome to share as much as we are. I find we all have gotten alot better at not taking things personal imo. I learn a little bit about God from anything posted about him. His influence is in everything so you can learn a little more from every thing around you. true Johnny,that we all have gotten better about discussing.we all are the children of Adam and Eve,this is enough of a reason to discuss in a peaceful way.we all are free to believe in the way that we find as truth.we all have our reasons and the time will show us the truth.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 1, 2010 17:37:26 GMT -5
"Therefore say I unto you (Jews), The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 21:43)"
"These things, then, which you saw you shall present to those of another race who are not of this age " (The Apocalypse of Peter)
"Behold! GOD said: O Jesus! I will take thee And raise thee to Myself And clear thee (of the falsehoods) Of those who blaspheme; I will make those Who follow thee superior To those who reject faith, To the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, And I will judge Between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. (The Noble Quran, 3:55)"
Isaiah 42:6,11:
6. "I, the LORD , have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, ......
‘I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel’
11. Let the desert and its towns raise their voices; let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice. Let the people of Sela sing for joy; let them shout from the mountaintops.
( Kedar is the son of Ishmael peace be upon him: "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" )
Isaiah 42
The Servant of the Lord
1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. 2 He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. 3 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; 4 he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope."
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 22:48:15 GMT -5
Engin you have not disrespected anyone. That wasn't my point.
I was making the point that "some folks" who claim to be Christians sure snap like a pitbull at me to shut me up. Even without reading the thread.
It's nothing new to me. I've gotten that response from many "Christians" along my path.
Christians have a joy in our hearts and have a need and desire to share the gospel. With anyone and everyone.
Then there are folks who feel the need to silence Christians. As if the gospel is suppose to be a hush hush story.
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Post by Ryan Thames on Aug 1, 2010 22:51:53 GMT -5
To all Christians
If life were a football game the body of Christ would be the offense and Satan would be the defense.
Christ the quarter back told his team to run for the touchdown. (spread the gospel) be offensive.
Satans defense was told to keep that from happening. Silence Christians. To stop the gospel. Or atleast prevent it from being so "offensive"
Look at how your playing the game.
Who's side are you playing for?
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Post by John Parton on Aug 1, 2010 23:34:11 GMT -5
I only now have seen this conversation. You I am sure know my friend Engin that we as Christians believe the passage in Isaiah 42 refers to Jesus, who unlike any other figure in the world never laid His hands on anohter man for harm, neither did he enter into politics to try and effect change by earthly means. I apprecicate your willingness to discuss these matters with us, and I hope that you to might learn a little more about who we are. Genesis chapter 13 verses 1-3 "Now the Lord said to Abram Get theee out of they country, and away from thy relatives and thy fathers house, unto a land which I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation and I will blees thee and make thy name great, and thou shall be a blessing. AndI will bles them that bless you, and curse them that curse you, and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Galatians Chapter 3 verses 16 and 17 say this Now unto Abraham and his seed the promises made. And He said not to seeds as many, but as of one, and to thy seed which is Christ. The word Christ is trhe Greek word for Messiah, which if I am not mistaken not only to Christians await His return, but both the faithful children of Ishmael and Isaac do as well. Now I know that Muslims to not like the word of Paul, but I wonder if they have heard these that he wrote. 2nd Corinthians chapter 6 beginning with verse 14 " Do not be unequally joined together with unbelievers, for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness, and what in common does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Satan, or what part does the person who believes have with an infidel.? As what agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the Living God. As God has said, I will live in them and walk in them and I will be thei God and they shall be my people. therefore come out from among them and be seperate and do not touch the unclean thing and I will receive you and I will be a Father to you and you shall be my sons and daughters says the Lord Almighty." or againin the writings of Paul you might perhaps read Ephesians Chapter 5 in which verse 3 -6 says But fornication and all uncleaness or covetousness (wanting other peoples things) let it not be named among you as is fitting for saints neither filthiness or foolish talking or coase joking which are not proper, but rather giving thanks. for you know that no sleepermonger or unclean person or covetous man who is an idolater has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God. Let no man deceive you with worthless words for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Verse 7 say do nt be partakers with them. See Paul did believe that we should live a right life. The doctrine of grace simply says that no amount of good works or deeds can pay for our past crimes against God. Only an undeserved pardon from God our King can get us into heaven. We believe that Jesus came to offer Himself for our crimes and that the Holy spirit would give us the strength to learn to do what is right, so others would see that there is a God and that he is the God of Abraham! Good night my friend
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 2, 2010 2:33:24 GMT -5
hi John,
i did not really understand your post but we Muslims believe in Jesus Christ as a Holy Messenger,a Word and the Christ of GOD.we believe that he was born from a virgin mother and he performed a lot of miracles by the power that was given to him by GOD.but we do not believe that he ever claimed to be god,he was sent to fulfill the COMMANDMENT that was given to him by GOD.
we do not believe in Paul to be someone who represanted Jesus.except Paul himself there is no witness that verifies his words.you can clearly see by his own words that Paul was not supported by the TRUE disciples of Jesus,even though we never read the story from the TRUE disciples of Jesus except the one that is written by Apostle Barnabas.Paul has NEVER seen Jesus,he claims that he did but again there is no witness for his claim except himself.unfortunately most of the Christian doctrine that we have today is the writings of Paul and his disciples who have not seen Jesus either.there is one fact for sure that the TRUE disciples of Jesus,who sat,ate,listened,slept by Jesus did not believe in Paul at the beginning but then tried to believe because of Barnabas but again left him after seing that he was following his own that was mixed with Mythology.so this caused different teachings about Jesus Christ and that is why Christianity was forced to make a desicion about the way that they will follow in 325 Nicean Council that was held by the Eastern Roman Emperor Constantine.that was the place that the trinity belief became as the official doctrine,that was the time that the new testament that you now have put together,that was the time that all other Gospels were prohibited and ordered to be burnt.people who had those Gospels were punished by death.
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Post by enginterzi on Aug 2, 2010 2:55:40 GMT -5
i did not really understand your post but we Muslims believe in Jesus Christ as a Holy Messenger,a Word and the Christ of GOD.we believe that he was born from a virgin mother and he performed a lot of miracles by the power that was given to him by GOD. "Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48). "When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) but we do not believe that he ever claimed to be god,he was sent to fulfill the COMMANDMENT that was given to him by GOD. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, nor the son, not the angels of heaven, but my Father onlyJhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he fearedI ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.[/quote]
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