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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 23:09:39 GMT -5
Christian, I understand about spending the money to go, but what gets me is that none of the National events get any respect anymore, "well you won because so and so didn't show" or " you won because it was a low turn out". For the guys and gals that spend their hard earned $$ and training time to go support a national event, and then do good at the event and know one cares is aggravating. I guess with all the $$ events happening now, none of the Elites (except for Craig Tullier) will show up to a national event anymore. Guess we will never have a "true national champion" again Personally, I have always dreamt of a National Title. It's been so close a number of times, but it has eluded me. Let me tell you- nothing on God's Green Earth sucks as bad as taking 2nd at Nationals. Third didn't hurt as bad as 2nd. People keep talking endless crap about multiple Nationals. Well, like many of you I have pulled them all. They are all Nationals, there aren't any easy ones. Turnout suffers based on geography, I don't care what anyone has to say on it. You can point to to entries all day long and those numbers are going to shift between organizations, year over year. The best location gets the best turnout. Unifieds will be awesome if Worlds is in a location people want to go to, and there will be poor turnout if Worlds is somewhere nobody wants to go. The numbers don't lie, so look up the historical numbers yourself. I have tremendous respect for anyone who has won a National title. Every Nationals, of any organization, that I have been to has been way more difficult to win than some events people have claimed "World" titles at. No offense, just a fact. And it chaps my buns to have 2nds from those events, too!
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 6, 2013 23:19:14 GMT -5
Tim B again I will try and clear why most of the top guys don't pull nationals (hope im not out of place) We get paid to travel hotel air fare and something to pull.So travel on myown dime not really good, Or take a chance on screwing up my arm when my whole year is spent training for big avents.As for three nationals they all have a right to call there show what ever they want. NAL world champ UAL world champ world bar armwresling world champ WAF world champ other WAF world champ WWC world champ MLA world champ NAP world champ well that's more than threewhy isn't anyone making a thread on that!!!!! As for Karen B GIVEHER THE RESPECT SHE DESERVES,she heads up AAA and is on the USAF board so she KINDA KNOWS WHAT SHES TALKING ABOUT,I pulled in USAA many many times great event top knoch people run great event!!!Unified more good people running another great even. so lets stop the 100th thread on this subjet lets move on to the steroid thread its been a bit since the lastone of those!!!!!!! Years ago people talked all kinds of smack about Brzenk not going to Nationals. John didn't go to Nationals and therefore couldn't go "support Team USA" at WAF Worlds. Of course, it was a foregone conclusion that he would annihilate the class, but people still ran their trap about "why doesn't Brzenk go to WAF..." I think John finally went to WAF Worlds in Japan to shut people up. I have no idea, but I always suspected that. Just like Tim says. John got paid to fly around the world to beat whoever was the new "Brzenk beater" that year. Why on Earth would John pay out of pocket to go beat his arm up at Nationals? For the pleasure of paying out of pocket again to go beat his arm up at WAF Worlds, where nobody had a snowball's chance in hell of giving him a decent match? All so he could beat up his arm, use up his vacation time, and spend his money to go to an event he couldn't give a flying crap about? Ron Bath has said it a million times. Just how many times is somebody supposed to pay thousands out of pocket?
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Aug 7, 2013 5:18:45 GMT -5
Christian, I understand about spending the money to go, but what gets me is that none of the National events get any respect anymore, "well you won because so and so didn't show" or " you won because it was a low turn out". For the guys and gals that spend their hard earned $$ and training time to go support a national event, and then do good at the event and know one cares is aggravating. I guess with all the $$ events happening now, none of the Elites (except for Craig Tullier) will show up to a national event anymore. Guess we will never have a "true national champion" again Agreed, but these " super/challenge" matches, and rankings also have to do with it... If" Joe blow" gets a challenge match against a ranked guy and beats him, he gets more recognition Then winning a Nat title. He then gets invited to do other challenge matches and maybe to go to Armwars,etc...Better than saying I am a 15- 20 time Nat champ. You ever see someone tell a person, who is NOT an AWer, that they are a 15-20 Nat champ? Or try to explain, to a NON AWer, that someone has 18, 27, or 35 world title? Now we know how, but the NON AWers don't, and don't get it..
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Aug 7, 2013 7:24:03 GMT -5
Whoa Whoa...pump the brakes there Mr. Russell. I don't need a bunch of angry country boys out to get me. Too late there Mister "tell your brother he's a pu$$y if he don't show up"......... Haha...I just miss you Tommy and want to make sure you come up to the VA States with your brother. Funny that the only time we've ever pulled in a tournament was MD States in 2007 in the novice class. That was my first tournament and I believe yours too.
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 8:20:40 GMT -5
There may have been more total entries, but because they offer so many weight classes, the classes weren't as competitive, in my opinion. When you offer 154, 165, 176, 187, and 198, instead of just 154, 176, 198, the classes are bound to be thinner. Think about it. If AAA only had 176, then some of the 165 and 187 guys would have to enter that class. That's why USAA had 14 entries in the pro 176 class. i wish i could follow you on this one...but you lost me. so they offer more classes and get more entrys but they're not as good?..ok brother I'll let you have that one.....
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 8:31:12 GMT -5
Christian, I understand about spending the money to go, but what gets me is that none of the National events get any respect anymore, "well you won because so and so didn't show" or " you won because it was a low turn out". For the guys and gals that spend their hard earned $$ and training time to go support a national event, and then do good at the event and know one cares is aggravating. I guess with all the $$ events happening now, none of the Elites (except for Craig Tullier) will show up to a national event anymore. Guess we will never have a "true national champion" again Agreed, but these " super/challenge" matches, and rankings also have to do with it... If" Joe blow" gets a challenge match against a ranked guy and beats him, he gets more recognition Then winning a Nat title. He then gets invited to do other challenge matches and maybe to go to Armwars,etc...Better than saying I am a 15- 20 time Nat champ. You ever see someone tell a person, who is NOT an AWer, that they are a 15-20 Nat champ? Or try to explain, to a NON AWer, that someone has 18, 27, or 35 world title? Now we know how, but the NON AWers don't, and don't get it.. times have changed. the "bang for your buck" theory is in effect now. challenge matches and Round robins offer $ and more pulls, especially against someone you've trained for and or hunting! I fully understand why the "elite" don't show up. The nationals folks could PONY UP $$ AND THAT could probably raise a few eyebrows.... but I compltetly get it.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Aug 7, 2013 8:32:54 GMT -5
There may have been more total entries, but because they offer so many weight classes, the classes weren't as competitive, in my opinion. When you offer 154, 165, 176, 187, and 198, instead of just 154, 176, 198, the classes are bound to be thinner. Think about it. If AAA only had 176, then some of the 165 and 187 guys would have to enter that class. That's why USAA had 14 entries in the pro 176 class. i wish i could follow you on this one...but you lost me. so they offer more classes and get more entrys but they're not as good?..ok brother I'll let you have that one..... TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it.
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 9:42:02 GMT -5
i wish i could follow you on this one...but you lost me. so they offer more classes and get more entrys but they're not as good?..ok brother I'll let you have that one..... TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it. 10-4....maybe i did....lol
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Post by Chris Burns on Aug 7, 2013 9:42:28 GMT -5
Well said Mr. Tim.......and...for a big strong hairy guy who takes pleasure in ripping men's arms off.....you almost sounded compassionate!.....
If you end up going to Vegas this month....good luck!.......
Sent from my SGH-T999 using proboards
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 9:45:09 GMT -5
i'm anxious to see where AAA's will be next year and how the nationlas are placed on the calender for 2014 myself.
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Post by Justin "Bama Bull" Bishop on Aug 7, 2013 11:08:58 GMT -5
One reason is bc they offer these classes at worlds and if I'm not mistaking AAA use to qualify for worlds. Not sure if that has been mentioned above.
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Post by Jeff Janes on Aug 7, 2013 11:18:20 GMT -5
i wish i could follow you on this one...but you lost me. so they offer more classes and get more entrys but they're not as good?..ok brother I'll let you have that one..... TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it. Thinner doesn't mean easier to win, it depends a lit on who enters and at what class. If the 187 only had Craig T. and one other guy, I bet one could argue it would be more difficult to win that class than 8-10 in the 198 class. Lots of variables to consider.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Aug 7, 2013 11:26:38 GMT -5
TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it. Thinner doesn't mean easier to win, it depends a lit on who enters and at what class. If the 187 only had Craig T. and one other guy, I bet one could argue it would be more difficult to win that class than 8-10 in the 198 class. Lots of variables to consider. Did you read my entire post? Look what I put in parenthesis.
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Post by Justin "Bama Bull" Bishop on Aug 7, 2013 11:27:50 GMT -5
Also if anyone is thinking that they don't like those classes bc "some ppl "like to go up or down a class to keep there spot or dodge ppl, well that happens in tournaments all the time. It shouldn't be a problem for you Bryan since you pull what you walk around at anyway.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on Aug 7, 2013 11:36:34 GMT -5
I wasn't suggesting that anyone is going up or down to dodge opponents, but maybe some do, who knows.
You're right; I walk around at the weight I pull. I like being able to drive up to a tournament the day of, eat a nice breakfast, and still make weight. The whole crash dieting, dehydrating, and weighing in the night before thing is not for me.
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