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Post by Jeff Janes on Aug 7, 2013 12:19:11 GMT -5
Thinner doesn't mean easier to win, it depends a lit on who enters and at what class. If the 187 only had Craig T. and one other guy, I bet one could argue it would be more difficult to win that class than 8-10 in the 198 class. Lots of variables to consider. Did you read my entire post? Look what I put in parenthesis. I did. 18 novice pulling in a +199lbs class will likely always be more difficult than 5 in the same class. Nationals can easily have that one guy no matter how big the class that is just that much better than everyone else. Also would have to see the breakdown of every class because you could still have the same amount of open competitors in each class if the masters and women's, etc. are weak in attendance.
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Post by michaelmeador on Aug 7, 2013 13:21:50 GMT -5
Tim B again I will try and clear why most of the top guys don't pull nationals (hope im not out of place) We get paid to travel hotel air fare and something to pull.So travel on myown dime not really good, Or take a chance on screwing up my arm when my whole year is spent training for big avents.As for three nationals they all have a right to call there show what ever they want. NAL world champ UAL world champ world bar armwresling world champ WAF world champ other WAF world champ WWC world champ MLA world champ NAP world champ well that's more than threewhy isn't anyone making a thread on that!!!!! As for Karen B GIVEHER THE RESPECT SHE DESERVES,she heads up AAA and is on the USAF board so she KINDA KNOWS WHAT SHES TALKING ABOUT,I pulled in USAA many many times great event top knoch people run great event!!!Unified more good people running another great even. so lets stop the 100th thread on this subjet lets move on to the steroid thread its been a bit since the lastone of those!!!!!!! Years ago people talked all kinds of smack about Brzenk not going to Nationals. John didn't go to Nationals and therefore couldn't go "support Team USA" at WAF Worlds. Of course, it was a foregone conclusion that he would annihilate the class, but people still ran their trap about "why doesn't Brzenk go to WAF..." I think John finally went to WAF Worlds in Japan to shut people up. I have no idea, but I always suspected that. Just like Tim says. John got paid to fly around the world to beat whoever was the new "Brzenk beater" that year. Why on Earth would John pay out of pocket to go beat his arm up at Nationals? For the pleasure of paying out of pocket again to go beat his arm up at WAF Worlds, where nobody had a snowball's chance in hell of giving him a decent match? All so he could beat up his arm, use up his vacation time, and spend his money to go to an event he couldn't give a flying crap about? Ron Bath has said it a million times. Just how many times is somebody supposed to pay thousands out of pocket? Tahoe nationals paid out well, John normally pulled multiple classes because of the money. Hell he even was at Dallas Europa every year doing the same thing until it was switched to cash boxes..
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 7, 2013 15:27:57 GMT -5
Exactly. But it's not just money- the challenge has to be there, too. If anybody has some crazy notion that Brzenk is just about money, they're wrong.
John attended a certain tournament where the proceeds went to help a local boy who was facing some medical challenges. Brzenk won the 199+ Supermatch Class which paid $1000. John took that $1000 cash and walked right over to the boy and handed it to him.
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Post by Joseph Pagani on Aug 7, 2013 15:54:48 GMT -5
Exactly. But it's not just money- the challenge has to be there, too. If anybody has some crazy notion that Brzenk is just about money, they're wrong. John attended a certain tournament where the proceeds went to help a local boy who was facing some medical challenges. Brzenk won the 199+ Supermatch Class which paid $1000. John took that $1000 cash and walked right over to the boy and handed it to him. That's why he's the greatest, what a classy move, Someone needs to make a rocky like statue after Brzenk!
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 16:06:27 GMT -5
Years ago people talked all kinds of smack about Brzenk not going to Nationals. John didn't go to Nationals and therefore couldn't go "support Team USA" at WAF Worlds. Of course, it was a foregone conclusion that he would annihilate the class, but people still ran their trap about "why doesn't Brzenk go to WAF..." I think John finally went to WAF Worlds in Japan to shut people up. I have no idea, but I always suspected that. Just like Tim says. John got paid to fly around the world to beat whoever was the new "Brzenk beater" that year. Why on Earth would John pay out of pocket to go beat his arm up at Nationals? For the pleasure of paying out of pocket again to go beat his arm up at WAF Worlds, where nobody had a snowball's chance in hell of giving him a decent match? All so he could beat up his arm, use up his vacation time, and spend his money to go to an event he couldn't give a flying crap about? Ron Bath has said it a million times. Just how many times is somebody supposed to pay thousands out of pocket? Tahoe nationals paid out well, John normally pulled multiple classes because of the money. Hell he even was at Dallas Europa every year doing the same thing until it was switched to cash boxes.. NOT TO GET OFF THE TOPIC...BUT CASH BOXES?.....THATS PROBABLY THE WORSE IDEA EVER (IF YOU'VE WON ONE YOU'D PROBABLY DISAGREE) I'M NOT GONNA KICK EVERYONES A$$ IN THE BUILDING AND HAVE SOMEONE I BEAT DRAW A WINNING #......WORST IDEA EVER. PAYOUT TO WINNERS.... T/K
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 16:08:49 GMT -5
TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it. Thinner doesn't mean easier to win, it depends a lit on who enters and at what class. If the 187 only had Craig T. and one other guy, I bet one could argue it would be more difficult to win that class than 8-10 in the 198 class. Lots of variables to consider. BEST 2 OUT OF 3 AGAINST TULLIER IN 187.....= A LONG DRIVE HOME...LOL
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Post by TK on Aug 7, 2013 16:11:25 GMT -5
Tim B again I will try and clear why most of the top guys don't pull nationals (hope im not out of place) We get paid to travel hotel air fare and something to pull.So travel on myown dime not really good, Or take a chance on screwing up my arm when my whole year is spent training for big avents.As for three nationals they all have a right to call there show what ever they want. NAL world champ UAL world champ world bar armwresling world champ WAF world champ other WAF world champ WWC world champ MLA world champ NAP world champ well that's more than threewhy isn't anyone making a thread on that!!!!! As for Karen B GIVEHER THE RESPECT SHE DESERVES,she heads up AAA and is on the USAF board so she KINDA KNOWS WHAT SHES TALKING ABOUT,I pulled in USAA many many times great event top knoch people run great event!!!Unified more good people running another great even. so lets stop the 100th thread on this subjet lets move on to the steroid thread its been a bit since the lastone of those!!!!!!! Years ago people talked all kinds of smack about Brzenk not going to Nationals. John didn't go to Nationals and therefore couldn't go "support Team USA" at WAF Worlds. Of course, it was a foregone conclusion that he would annihilate the class, but people still ran their trap about "why doesn't Brzenk go to WAF..." I think John finally went to WAF Worlds in Japan to shut people up. I have no idea, but I always suspected that. Just like Tim says. John got paid to fly around the world to beat whoever was the new "Brzenk beater" that year. Why on Earth would John pay out of pocket to go beat his arm up at Nationals? For the pleasure of paying out of pocket again to go beat his arm up at WAF Worlds, where nobody had a snowball's chance in hell of giving him a decent match? All so he could beat up his arm, use up his vacation time, and spend his money to go to an event he couldn't give a flying crap about? Ron Bath has said it a million times. Just how many times is somebody supposed to pay thousands out of pocket? nationals almost seems like a earner tournament? rite of passage to the elite....win it once or twice and be done with it eh? makes sense.....got 3 shots at it in a year.
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 7, 2013 16:42:53 GMT -5
I don't know, yes and no. I suppose it has more to do with the person. If you want a WAF World title then there is only one way to get there. It's pretty cut and dried.
If you want a National title that everyone recognizes, that changes over time. Once upon a time, and for a very long time, that was AAA Nationals. Even when there were two WAFs adn two Nationals that qualified you for Worlds, people who won the USAA Nats didn't get much respect. The people who won't stop polishing Michael Todd's knob today were the same ones calling him a fake National Champ back when he was winning USAA Nats every year. If you want a WAF title now, then Unifieds is the only game that's going to get you there. Five or ten years from now, who knows?
There will always be haters.
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Post by Brian Keema on Aug 7, 2013 19:36:14 GMT -5
what r cash boxes?
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Post by michaelmeador on Aug 7, 2013 19:50:33 GMT -5
I'm not saying he is a 100% about the money. I'm saying he's 97% about the money lol..
More power to em.. I didn't mean anything by it, was just saying when he could make 1200 or so bucks he would hit nationals.
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 7, 2013 22:21:31 GMT -5
If I knew that I could get paid every time I pulled an event, I'd have a hard time justifying taking time off work and spending money out of my pocket to go to an event where there would be no payout.
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 7, 2013 22:28:45 GMT -5
Brian, the way cash boxes work is that you get so many raffle tickets for placing. You have to win the tickets. Let's say 1st place gets 4 tickets, 2nd gets 3, etc. The only people in the running for the cash boxes are people who won tickets by placing in each class. The higher you place, the more chances you have to win because you win more tickets.
They hold a drawing to see who wins a certain cash box. The cash boxes tend to be pretty fat, say $500. There are usually several cash boxes. So you win tickets to get into the drawing for any or all of these boxes. That way, $2000 goes a long way as prizes, whereas $2000 spread out over 16 classes amounts to jack squat.
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Aug 8, 2013 4:58:39 GMT -5
i wish i could follow you on this one...but you lost me. so they offer more classes and get more entrys but they're not as good?..ok brother I'll let you have that one..... TK, it's very easy to understand. Let's say for the sake of argument that both tournaments have 100 pro entries. If one tournament offers only three pro classes under 200lbs (154, 176, and 198), and the other tournament offers five pro classes under 200lbs (154, 165, 176, 187, 198), then the classes at the second tournament are bound to be thinner and less competitive. This is pretty obvious. My statement was not that one tournament is better than the other. I was simply pointing out that one tournament had significantly more entries per weight class due to offering far fewer classes than the other. The fewer the classes offered, the more people per class, the harder it is to win (hypothetically. Obviously it depends on who shows up to pull). I think you are looking too far into this. My intention was not to take anything away from AAA or the people that won it. Apparently you haven't been in this "sport" very long. And seeing you've only been on the board a little while, you will soon find out that LESS isnt more when it comes to weight classes and entries with THE CLASSES UNDER 200lbs.. MANY, NOT ALL, BUT MANY "Pullers" under 200lbs have an issue if they have to pull 11lbs out of their class. I guess pulling ONLY 11lbs heavier than you, is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. And history proves that...go see, which you won't cause there are to many pts to go through, prior posts on Promoters who for on and ask about limiting classes and who would come. It's quite funny... Also, the same with $ tourneys when classes r combined. You get, " that's not fair if there is only a176, 198,and over classes, cause then only the best will win, so y bother going." Watch the old Tony Celeste's hook tourneys that were televised on ESPN
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Post by CHRISTIAN BINNIE on Aug 8, 2013 5:01:06 GMT -5
john Wilson,
If anyone talks about MT only pulling for $ now, r a complete F ING D o u c h e b a g. They should know their history of their "sport."
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Post by John Wilson on Aug 8, 2013 7:31:36 GMT -5
agreed. sadly it's not even 'history' it's all recent memory... or maybe i'm just getting old.
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