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Post by Josh Handeland on May 1, 2014 21:44:24 GMT -5
If can get permission from UAL, go to wal Vegas and pull 225, Doug Allen will prolly be there, beat him and you'll take his rank (#4 at 242). We all know ur a Vegas guy (or used to be at least). Maybe after having a few u wont even care abour rankings.
Or beg Drenk to let u pull a UMU against bath or chandler at 235. And win it.
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on May 1, 2014 21:51:58 GMT -5
Umm... Jordan Hasn't lost since... Kaufman and Doug Allen Go to A1?...You are a funny kid that hasn't a clue... I sure as fu(k can get a crack at john and todd without going to Russia. Don't give me the shuck and jive about globe trekkin and not wanting to hear about the whys... Because it's not your place to get involved in my business and life decisions. Ual ?... How am I gonna pull ual matches when ual is in the dark ?... You act like they have weekly supermatch parties ... Again, madness. Win and don't lose ?... Sure , just point out the guy who fits this bill ... Lol Excuses ?... No different than the ones you make for all the guys you favor... I give up... We are very different people with very different views. I should address slater as he seems to be the don of us rankings too... Buh bye
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Post by Rob Vigeant Jr. on May 1, 2014 21:53:45 GMT -5
If can get permission from UAL, go to wal Vegas and pull 225, Doug Allen will prolly be there, beat him and you'll take his rank (#4 at 242). We all know ur a Vegas guy (or used to be at least). Maybe after having a few u wont even care abour rankings. Or beg Drenk to let u pull a UMU against bath or chandler at 235. And win it. WAL is out for obvious reasons Already begged Drenk for chandler... I was a Vegas guy... When I lived there ... I live across the country now.
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Post by Josh Handeland on May 1, 2014 21:57:24 GMT -5
I heard Mac Telle was allowed to pull WAL? As long as he wore UAL gear and he they wouldn't film him for tv. He said that on Facebook. Idk maybe they're making an exception for him but he's a UAL contracted athlete.
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Post by Kelli Nelson on May 1, 2014 22:05:35 GMT -5
Hahahaha Mactard was kidding! You fell for that s h i t?!?!?!
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Post by Josh Handeland on May 1, 2014 22:13:47 GMT -5
I meant to say Sill hasn't lost to anyone ranked below him. He lost to Kaufman and green and since then beat them both in supermatches. So he took his spot back. Slater has a say on usa rankings if it affects north american rankings which are his too. Goodbye
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Post by Josh Handeland on May 1, 2014 22:15:30 GMT -5
Hahahaha Mactard was kidding! You fell for that s h i t?!?!?! I didn't read his whole post (comments and all) but read the first few and it sounded legit so yes I thought he was being serious. Guess not.
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Post by David Owens on May 1, 2014 22:23:06 GMT -5
I was talking with Josh on facebook and he told me if you beat someone at 205 you can be ranked in that class as long as you pull 198 one time per year.
Same for 185 to 176 I'm guessing.
If anyone of us were to create a ranking it would not be what it is I am 100 percent certain of that. However as long as everyone is playing by the same rules we at least know what we have to do to get ranked and Imo that is fair.
For the record IMO
198 1 RVJ 2 Rakers 3 Chad if he is staying above 176 4 Tullier if he is staying above 176 everyone else could flip flop in this class but this is ALL JMO
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on May 1, 2014 22:34:22 GMT -5
Josh, it was literally 2 months earlier. Do you honestly believe he got better in 2 months? When you take into account recovery time from the previous tourney, then rest time before the next tourney, what is that, 2-3 practices max? Come on now, you can't believe that. On a side note, this takes nothing away from Toups. He is a great puller and a good guy and did a great job at the Arnold's this year. I think he deserves to be ranked, but I think my win on him should count for something, especially when the class we both had to pull at UAL 6 is taken into account. I think that given he didn't cut weight and other factors its definitely possible he could have been a substantial amount stronger. But say he wasn't. What's the cutoff for being ranked above him, say if u beat him 2 months earlier u should be above him - then what if it had been 4 months, 6 months, or a year? If its a year then we'd need to go back to ur loss on Talbott, Quinlan Mendez beat him in a 98 class since then, should he be ranked above u and Toups both? Scott Ballinger beat Talbott in november and Toups beat Scott once, how far back "counts"? Rob I didn't c McGraw beating logsdon before I sent in my updates. Since then Bill beat AJ Henson too. Yes u go above the last guy u beat. This is how I've always done my rankings. Say my ranking is 1. A 2. B 3. C 4. D 5. E If D beats E then a month later D beats A, should D be ranked number 1? IMO no. He didnt beat A. E did. Different styles can be different results. Look at Kindt Corey cobra fisher Talbott and Klemba all going back and forth with each other. They've all beat each other in the last 1 year. Should I rank them all tied then? Or rank cobra and fisher highest since they won worlds in 1980 whatever Josh, I said two months prior...obviously a year is pushing it, or even 6 months for that matter. If you want to say cutting weight was the reason for the loss, then let's look at the match where I lost to Talbott as you brought up. First, that was actually over a year ago if I remember correctly, second, I was walking around at 171lbs then. I weighed the same at USAA Nationals where I got a win on Klemba, who then ultimately beat me. I stopped starving myself to look pretty and now walk around at 195lbs, which is a few pounds heavier than I was at UAL 6. You tell me if those 24lbs make a difference. At the end of the day, the only rankings that really matter to me are the UAL ones, as they dictate who gets a UMU and makes real money. As I believe you know, I have always supported your rankings, even though obviously we all have differing opinions. This particular update, however, has raised my eyebrow.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on May 1, 2014 22:37:48 GMT -5
And David, I get what the system is, but there is definitely some human judgement weighing in he, not just raw data. I'm sorry, but no one becomes exponentially stronger in 2 months.
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Post by Josh Handeland on May 1, 2014 22:41:51 GMT -5
So how far back should wins affect the rankings - 4 months? Or is 2 the cutoff? Bryan I hope there's no beef between us even though u disagree with my rankings. Also just because you beat Toups quickly IMO doesn't necessarily mean he'd have to get WAY stronger to beat u, 1% difference in strength can beat the difference in stopping a match or not stopping it, also a simple change in direction of pulling can mean a win vs a loss. We've all seen in supermatches where one guy smokes another guy first round but the guy that got smoked comes back and wins by making adjustments. The same can and has happened in tourneys. Not saying u can or can't beat Toups just saying he wouldn't necessarily have to get way stronger to beat u. For the record id pick him over u if u guys did a 2 outta 3 or met up first round of a tourney, at 198. Wouldn't bet much though because I am not a gambler.
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Post by David Owens on May 1, 2014 23:09:33 GMT -5
If you want a non opinion based ranking i think you have to use raw data. To do a opinion based ranking i think a large panel is the only way to thin out the bias and I say thin out because i don't believe you can ever really remove it without using a system and raw data
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Post by Jerry Milne on May 2, 2014 6:50:12 GMT -5
Josh and Jeff, thank you for all your efforts.
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Post by Leonard Harkless on May 2, 2014 9:06:25 GMT -5
If you want a non opinion based ranking i think you have to use raw data. To do a opinion based ranking i think a large panel is the only way to thin out the bias and I say thin out because i don't believe you can ever really remove it without using a system and raw data That is exactly what I was saying, all rankings will to some degree be opinion unless you do a point system like some of the major sports. Then a particular win will not bring you up unless the two of you are close in points. The draw back is that you will get ranked higher than a another puller who is better than you, if you attend more tournaments than him. There is no perfect system but Josh is doing the best he can within a system. Disagreement is expected but being a "RICHARD" is not.
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Herman Stevens
Gold Member
Team Bakersfield / Team Louisiana
Posts: 730
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Post by Herman Stevens on May 2, 2014 11:19:51 GMT -5
Josh is a beast. There is a system in place, and he is executing that system maybe 95%. I'm sure there are a few things he's missed, but I know if someone presents the data and it aligns with the system, the rankings will change.
Maybe the Hutchings/Vigeant is a mistake. I don't know.
It's pretty simple.
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