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Post by Mike Cocchi on May 2, 2014 14:39:22 GMT -5
No offense to anyone and not taking any sides, but reality is the rankings will never be 100%. Until there is one League like every other professional sport.
I think the GOA producer put it best when he said armwrestling is a sport that took ideas from other sports.
He is right.
Armwrestling rankings are as such.. You are only as good as the last tournament you pulled in. (IMO)
So keep pulling and keep wining and your the guy or gal to beat.
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Post by Andy Freeland on May 3, 2014 18:13:08 GMT -5
In Russia they now use a point ranking system similar to the ranking system in chess. This is the future of the sport. Until then I agree with Herman. When you look at every angle of ITH rankings, they do them in a way that will draw the least scrutiny. If you were to change the way they do them, for example Brians situation, that would open up a whole different can of worms and just further complicate and make the system less accurate. I 100% agree with you Brian, but they have to stick to the rules of the system for it to be as accurate as possible and keep the opinion element to a minimum.
As far as RVJ Vs Todd, That decision was an exception to the normal rules and should be changed IMO. A win is a win, and saying that Todd wasn't fresh so It dosnt count is heading down a road of endless debate to which there is no end. If you put your arm up there, it's should be a done deal, or you are headed twards Engin style rankings and it will be a full time job defending your opinions.
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Post by Bob Brown on May 3, 2014 19:55:47 GMT -5
HHHMMMMM.......A points based ranking system.
Now that sounds like a GREAT idea and very familiar. ARMTV had exactly that but of course everyone gave Gary a bunch of crap in the beginning because there was not enough data to start to get it accurate. Its was just starting to show more real Rankings when he stopped doing it do to lack of resources. If it could have all the data entered it would be the best one out there.
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Post by Andy Freeland on May 3, 2014 20:32:49 GMT -5
It is near impossible to get the finished W/L bracket sheets from every tournament, which is necessary to create the most accurate rankings. If an organization is serious about accurate ranking, that's the first step....getting the data. Then you simply enter each match into an ELO type calculator and after each puller has pulled 20+ times it starts getting accurate enough that Vegas could use the info and open up betting on armwrestling. (After 50+ matches it's dang near spot on). So ya, it would take some time (year or two), but would be worth it in the end. I think it's only a matter of time so why not start now?
Any programmers out there that could write software/design a website that enables tournament directors to enter the brackets online, instead of on paper? The software would calculate real time ranking changes as each match ends. Dosn't seem like it would be too tough. Promoters simply all use the same website and wah-la....done.
Seems that Russia has found a way to cooperate, their rankings already look pretty good, and will be the most accurate soon.
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Post by Andrew Bieganski on May 3, 2014 20:59:38 GMT -5
People need to start posting the brackets for tournaments not just the result
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Post by Josh Handeland on May 3, 2014 21:53:03 GMT -5
If anyone would like to create a points system, that's fine with me.
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Post by Devon Larratt on May 3, 2014 22:12:03 GMT -5
Heya Josh - there is a fantastic system that is being currently established for worldwide use. i know it is already established in australia. I have been trying to get things join with it but i am just really fin busy. Duan Beckett - he's on Facebook - established www.armwrestlingrankings.comIt is an chess style points system rankings. i think its awesome. I think it is a great system. it does revolve a lot around activity, which can be good. i would suggest to anyone involved with rankings to hook up with him and make the world connected by this system. The aussies are all on board for sharing their system and making this happen. I imagine in some time people will have a point number for their ranking and then a very small # of people will be considered champion some division (regardless of point total). Simplicity.
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Post by Andrew Grant on May 4, 2014 10:33:54 GMT -5
Double Elimination Tournament Software The most difficult part about doing the rankings is that the full brackets are never posted. This excel based programs makes it easy to track and publish full tournament data. If everyone used this program it would be very easy to collect all the data needed to make better rankings. The program is specifically designed for arm wrestling and has many great features. Learn more at pullers.2fear.com
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Post by Andy Freeland on May 4, 2014 21:46:28 GMT -5
Bingo...nice work! Now the calculation of rank. The Russians are using a different calculator for armwrestling than they do with chess. Maybe its the same basic math but the figuers IE: in chess master is 2200+, in armwrestling it's 8000+. Maybe they just wanted higher numbers, but use the same calculation (just added 6000 for AWing)
Anyway, your work is exactly what is needed to kick this thing off!
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Post by Nate Gagnon on May 4, 2014 21:47:55 GMT -5
People need to start posting the brackets for tournaments not just the result First, you need people to start posting their results! There are numerous tournaments that never get the results posted. That's the first thing I do after one of my tournaments, eat something for the first time that day, drink a beer or two or 6 and then post the results--usually they're up within a few hours of the end of my tournament
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Post by Andy Freeland on May 4, 2014 22:50:47 GMT -5
And for the record Josh, i wasn't bashing your system in any way. Right now your system is the best in NA, and as far as Rob's comment about quality of work, that's bull. You are spending your time and ranking based on the information you have at hand, and do a damn good job IMO. A math based ranking system, that is accurate enough to open up betting in Vegas is a year or two out, and I was just throwing in my .02.
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Post by Anthony Snook on May 5, 2014 6:35:55 GMT -5
And David, I get what the system is, but there is definitely some human judgement weighing in he, not just raw data. I'm sorry, but no one becomes exponentially stronger in 2 months. John is a 200+ pounder. UAL he dropped to 185. Arnold's, 198. In this case there was probably a big jump in horsepower in two months and 13 pounds. Just an outsiders observation. Carry-on.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on May 5, 2014 7:16:03 GMT -5
And David, I get what the system is, but there is definitely some human judgement weighing in he, not just raw data. I'm sorry, but no one becomes exponentially stronger in 2 months. John is a 200+ pounder. UAL he dropped to 185. Arnold's, 198. In this case there was probably a big jump in horsepower in two months and 13 pounds. Just an outsiders observation. Carry-on. Snook, Toups was 202lbs the day of UAL 6.
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Post by Anthony Snook on May 5, 2014 7:30:02 GMT -5
John is a 200+ pounder. UAL he dropped to 185. Arnold's, 198. In this case there was probably a big jump in horsepower in two months and 13 pounds. Just an outsiders observation. Carry-on. Snook, Toups was 202lbs the day of UAL 6. Just to save a big debate, I'm just gonna say OK.
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user123
Silver Member
VA
Posts: 381
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Post by user123 on May 5, 2014 7:44:01 GMT -5
Snook, Toups was 202lbs the day of UAL 6. Just to save a big debate, I'm just gonna say OK. There's nothing to debate. That was straight from the horse's mouth the day of the event.
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