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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 13:30:45 GMT -5
Had he went he would have been like Joe Louis (WW II) and Elvis Presley (Korea) and not been placed in harms way but been used to help with troop moral.
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 13:39:41 GMT -5
Johnny,
why is that so hard to believe&respect that a man would have fought only for what he believed to be right? do you think that at that time black men had no reason to protest the humiliation that they received from white men because of their skin colour? had they been treated as lower class human beings or as animals by white men or not? even now there are some towns in USA that black people are not welcomed,i just can not even imagine how it was when Ali's childhood or youth years that effected him so negatively.
i sure would have some anger in me if i was treated as a lower class human being because of my skin colour.maybe you would tolerate this but Ali did not.
"Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn't have to draft me, I'd join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I'll go to jail, so what? We've been in jail for 400 years."
"I ain't got no quarrel with them Vietcong.No Vietcong ever called me 'n.gger'."
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 13:53:15 GMT -5
Engin i'll say this once. Im not looking at racial issues on this matter im looking at him as a human being. He wasn't any better than any of the other boys they didn't agree with it either a lot of them and they still went faithfully they were "TRUE" Americans and everything that embodies that term and I have a high sence of national pride so for ali to be titled a "hero" is disgraceful to me because he was a coward plain cut and simple no excuses. HE WAS A COWARD. AN furthermore what did racial issues around him have anything to do with Dodging the draft thats just an excuse people use to uphold his Treason. He was a coward plain cut and simple. an true the vietcong didn't call him a "black person" an some people around in his own country did but doesn't something bad happen to everyone in their own country. That doesn't mean everyone believes that way just because one does. I have racist family members and Im not racist. I don't support the rebel flag but it also doesn't offend me either it's a part of history it's there to learn from. What Ali did was make excuses to make up for himself being a coward. I don't agree a 100% about our troops still being in Iraq but I support them because they are there and thats the fact of the matter no matter what anyone says they are still there so support them and help them and stand by them that is what a true american would do.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 13:56:22 GMT -5
An "ALI" didn't support them, so he's a coward and not a true american thats why he converted good for him he's still a coward though. Think about this any man can get up an complain about what has to be done and make up all these fancy reasons as to why they are doing what they are doing, but it takes a real man to go into the heat of battle faithfully and with authority to try and win for whatever the cause may be if it's for his country.
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 14:07:20 GMT -5
why does what he did have to be an excuse?because that is how you believe and everyone else need to think&believe as you think and believe? i clearly see that he had very unique personality,he was very self confident.all these make me believe that he was-is brave&strong enough to stick with what he believed to be right.
just looking at the things that he has been doing and what the world is thinking of him.
"Whereas it is estimated that Ali has helped to provide more than 22,000,000 meals to feed the hungry and travels, on average, more than 200 days per year;"
Heralded as the "Athlete of the Century" by USA Today, GQ, and many other publications, Muhammad continues to receive accolades for his contribution to sports. He has been named Sports Illustrated's "Athlete of the Century," the BBC's "Sports Personality of the Century," the World Sports Award's "World Sportsman of the Century," and the State of Kentucky's "Kentuckian of the Century." In 2005, he received the United States of America's highest civil award, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
1960 wins olympic gold medal at Rome olympics represanting USA.
1990,Ali travelled to Iraq to negotiate release of American hostages.
1998 Ali names messenger of peace by United Nations in New York.
2005 Ali receives presidential Medal of Freedom,The White House.
2005 Ali receives Otto Hahn Peace Medal,Germany.
Muhammad Ali Honored as "Living Legend" in West Africa
Muhammad Ali Honored by U.S. House of Representatives
Muhammad Ali was recognized by the United States House of Representatives in a resolution honoring his 65th birthday and humanitarian work. The bipartisan resolution was sponsored by Rep. Julia Carson of Indiana and co-sponsored by 54 members of Congress. It passed the House on Ali’s birthday, January 17, 2007.The text of the resolution, which passed the House by roll call vote 421-0
“[Ali’s] legendary charisma, charm, and genius did not stop in the ring or at press conferences,” said Rep. Maxine Waters of California, who offered remarks at the grand opening of the Muhammad Ali Center in 2005. “What makes him a true pioneer is the fact that he was principled enough to say no to the Vietnam War. The words he spoke in refusing the draft made a stark social commentary during that time and taught America a valuable way of thinking.”
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 14:18:31 GMT -5
You say he "makes" you believe he was brave and strong he was a good con-artist too. He got you to buy into his cowardice excuses. Where did I say everyone was to think and believe as me? Islam does that. So isn't that a contradiction as far as we are talking? They kill in the name of "GOD". He embodies that religion now and he was standing up for peace by joining a religion that kills because others don't believe as they do. If you ask me thats a contradiction within a contradiction.
He was a coward and did anything to cover up that fact and feeding people doesn't bring back those that died in his place now does it?
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 14:31:17 GMT -5
oo ok now i understand your problem by starting the crap about my religion when it had nothing to do with this subject.i will not go into this endless subject again.anytime someone do not agree with you then he is labeled as terrorist or bad man.once it was CCCP that evil in the world now muslims,i wonder who is next bad boy.
a muslim do not kill others because of different belief as long as he is not being attacted.get this in your mind before expressing your ill thoughts about my faith.i have not said anything offensive about you or your belief but you are just starting an argument which has nothing to do with our subject.that is how it happens in the world,harast and attack then crap starts out of it.
from here to there we can fix nothing.you will write and i will write without any result.
ps.dead Americans in Vietnam was not his fault,if you are looking for a responsible then it is not hard to find.Ali's desicion is clear,feeding & giving life.not taking life,is it hard to understand?
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 14:44:45 GMT -5
Thanks - but I think I have a pretty good grasp of it. Tyson was a punk who would not have been able to hang with any of the big dogs. Ali would have boxed his ears off Foreman would have left him a crumpled mess Holmes would have cut him to ribbons Tyson had potential. He could have been great but he decided to be a criminal. Maybe you need to go back and study some more films. Back too boxing. You young guys should watch some of the classic fights before jumping on the "Tyson greatest ever band wagon" after doing so and you still have the same educated opinion then so be it. Easy there mark you dont have to be sixty to watch an Ali fight....I have seen everyone of the mans fights, whether it be on espn classic or the tsn tribute to Ali I just watched.....The man was a good fighter, easily the best of his ERA, but In my opinion IRON Mike between the years 1986-1990 would have destroyed him in the ring, i know Ali is a Hero and this is hard to accept but the calibre of athletes are all around better than those of yesteryear...MIke Tyson in his early 20's was and still is the baddest man on the planet......Flat out, he hit harder, hit faster and weaved better than Ali or any of the greats from the 60's and 70"s........Saying Ali would have beaten Tyson is like sayin TED williams would have hit ...400 against todays pitchers, virtually impossible.... as for Ali dodging the draft, I Have my own views on that and well he Cassius made his decision and has lived with it, so who are we to judge him...would you or I made the same decision under his circumstances..posibly but who knows.....
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 14:50:14 GMT -5
You say he "makes" you believe he was brave and strong he was a good con-artist too. He got you to buy into his cowardice excuses. Where did I say everyone was to think and believe as me? Islam does that. So isn't that a contradiction as far as we are talking? They kill in the name of "GOD". He embodies that religion now and he was standing up for peace by joining a religion that kills because others don't believe as they do. If you ask me thats a contradiction within a contradiction. He was a coward and did anything to cover up that fact and feeding people doesn't bring back those that died in his place now does it? Johnny you young, young man, you just got into something that is an entire and complete waste of your time and energy..... ask myself, Allen hester or todd king, there is no point trying to argue with this man about anything, so My advice to you would to be to stop now......it is not worth it, it will just lead to further issues.....thats all i am going to say....do what you want to, but im telling you it is not worth your time and energy....Pm me if you want any mor advice on what I am telling you...
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Post by Sureyya Ayce on Apr 9, 2007 15:00:03 GMT -5
Engin,
an insult to our faith out of a boxing subject,as the other advisor has offended our nation during his personal argument by making us Turks wearing skirts.you are a living legend of armwrestling and i suggest you to stay away from them.
just discuss with people like Ryan Espey,John Parton,Mark Evans and others who are the bright faces&hearts of western world.impossible to not to respect these people.
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 15:20:27 GMT -5
Engin, an insult to our faith out of a boxing subject,as the other advisor has offended our nation during his personal argument by making us Turks wearing skirts.you are a living legend of armwrestling and i suggest you to stay away from them. just discuss with people like Ryan Espey,John Parton,Mark Evans and others who are the bright faces&hearts of western world.impossible to not to respect these people. sureyya im not hear to start trouble but im just telling johnny to stop now before things get out of control amd things get said that are not meant..thats all... but if u wanna bring up past events.i have a lot of ammunition to fuel this fire, yeah i made a derogatory remark, but i owned up and admitted I made a mistake..... Now on a really serious note..I wanna ask you a question and this comes from my heart, it really does.... What makes you think you can rest on your credentials as an armwrestler, as if it has some bearing on your credentials as a person ? Your right there are some legends in armwrestling, and i have nothing but te utmost respect for their armwrestling abilities, but heres were it gets tricky, just because they have my respect as armwrestlers it does not give them a free pass to my respect in terms of being a human being..... with that said i have nothing but the utmost respect for your armwrestling abilities, your a phenomanal armwrestler very talanted and very, very good, but as a human being I cant respect you, its nothing personal, but i cant respect a lackey, grow some nuts son and be your own man, instead of you know who's minion.........
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 15:22:27 GMT -5
Alright this is my last post on this subject and I'll leave it alone if it wasn't true Sureyya then you wouldn't be so offended by it. An it's a fact that they have killed people before I've seen christians killed because Muslims converted to Christianity over in the Middle East. An Ali was a coward and yes it did have something to do with Islam because thats what Ali converted to so he could change his name and box again. It offends me that Engin trys to throw racial issues into Ali's box of excuses. Yes putting down ones faith is bad, putting down a race is bad. Do I agree with it no. DO I HAVE AN OPINION? YES! whether it offends you or not I do not care. So what if im 19? Does that mean I don't have a mind and can't comprehend what is said. Say something bad about Christianity and I'll say ok if thats what you think it won't offend me. An if all people in the Easten world are so quick to judge Sureyya then I don't ever wanna visit that place cause your kinda snobbish sometimes. Let me ask you this my uncle is an atheist and doesn't believe in any religion but he has studied all of them an I was like why not believe in God an he says "why believe in something that muslims kill in the name of? if there is a God why would he want you to kill in his name?" Again I didn't say anything bad about it but thats what I have seen on tv about the Islamic faith. An then if you say then the TV is wrong then how come it isn't wrong about Ali? ?? Propaganda Propaganda............. Ya'll are so easy to offend. If the TV is wrong about Radical Muslims killing in the name of God then they are wrong about the things Ali said too. Ali wasn't standing up for his rights thats what the TV made you think, so as not to cause a public outrage then. So your contradicting yourself if you say the TV is wrong cause thats where mostly all information comes from.
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 15:22:53 GMT -5
Engin, just discuss with people like Ryan Espey,John Parton,Mark Evans and others who are the bright faces&hearts of western world.impossible to not to respect these people. You mean discuss with people that agree with you all the time and kiss you A$$ every time you talk with them.....yeah thats fun ........
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 15:24:59 GMT -5
Now go find some links to post instead of your opinion. An things "OTHER" people said. Im done. I think Holyfield should have a shot at the RUSSIAN Nikolay Valuev.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 15:26:09 GMT -5
YUP YUP
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