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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 15:31:37 GMT -5
Sureyya,
i did not bring the religious attack into this subject.i just said that even US senate have commended this man because of his life since his career beginning to this day.olympic games represant the spirit of universal peace and they have choisen Ali to do starting flame of 1996 olympic games and given him another olympic gold medal.
as an athlete my greatest dream is to have an olympic gold medal after winning olympic game but receiving an olympic medal because of my humanitarian works is even greater honour.the whole world understands the reason of this and it does not matter if some does not agree with it,as long as religious offenses do not start here when it has nothing to do with the subject.
i too can reply in same way right now but i just will not do it for i have taken lessons from the past as i proved last time by not offending a great nation because of my countrymen being offended out of a personal argument.
but i agree with you about not to involve the things that can create further arguments.
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 15:44:27 GMT -5
Johnny,
i dont think that Sureyya's english neither knowledge about what you wrote is enough.in Quran it is written to fight back against people who fights to kill you.if i or anyother muslim kill any human being without defending reasons then we would be the greatest sinners according to our belief.does that ever happen?yes it does happen but it would have nothing to with our religion but about our own egos.do some muslims use their religion because of justifying their wrong doings?yes they do but it has nothing to do with religion.
have muslims been the only people who used their religion for wars and killing others ? no,surely not.just read the history then you will see this.
there are about 10-15 million people visitors from the western world to my country every year.if you ever come to my country then please be my guest and you will see how wrong you are about us.a German and a Bulgarian armwrestlers just visited me for a week two months ago and i wish you knew them to talk with about their impressions about here.
peace.
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 15:45:19 GMT -5
Sureyya, i too can reply in same way right now but i just will not do it for i have taken lessons from the past as i proved last time by not offending a great nation because of my countrymen being offended out of a personal argument. This will be my last and only post to you ever i promise........ but other than you and sureyya who has been offended by my skirt comment because you two are the only ones still pissin and moaning about it a month later.....Unless you two are the new spokesmen for TURKEY.... tell you what send me a list of people offended in a pm and i will personally sent them an appology for my statement as I have admitted to it being said in the heat of an argument.....Do I really believe all turks wear skirts, NO not at all........
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Apr 9, 2007 15:50:49 GMT -5
Mark, I've stayed out of this after seeing a few of the posts. I do think Tyson would have beat the crap out of Shavers, Norton, or Foreman... Too fast, hits to hard, and too good of defense. But the main reason for writing is you are incorrect about Elvis. The King was regular army. Sgt. Presley was stationed in Germany and did his time and duties like anyone else. Down to 226, See you in Tahoe Casey
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 15:51:57 GMT -5
Yes that is true Engin Fight back if your attacked but that has nothing to do with Ali. Ali converted in the name of peace because he was a coward an dodged the draft. I didn't say the whole country was like your buddy either I said if they were then I would never wanna come over there. I've met some nice fellers and some bad ones also so im unbiased im just stating things that I have seen as facts or realities of life and my opinion about Ali and his ways. His ways involved his religion.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 15:56:51 GMT -5
Yeah an my Grandma lived through the Elvis thing an she said that he went and served his time and didn't back down like that "COWARD" Ali did. An if he woulda done what Ali did she woulda said he was a coward too.
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Post by Johnny Edwards on Apr 9, 2007 16:03:20 GMT -5
An according to your religion Engin I would say my great grandma is your elder.... she's 76. An she said also that black people didn't just have it hard back then she was friends with a lot of them an she said the poor white people had it just as bad that the race thing didn't matter if you was poor. She also said that it was just mainly the people in office and "rich" people that had something against the African Americans.
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 9, 2007 16:07:11 GMT -5
Johnny,
i had some troubles while i was in USA too because of my race and belief but if i am giving my proxy vote to Americans at WAF congress,if sharing my opinion with Chris Chandler at WAF about how to beat some puller,if again sharing my opinion with Bob Brown about what Bryon Johnson could do against Ruslan Babayev in the final,if i am still receiving invitation for a TOP EVENT in this year and planning to do my best to compete this event in USA even though i was treated badly last time.... then it just means that i do not blame the whole nation because of some negative incidents that directly happenned to me.because the majority of the people were very friendly.on our news papers there are a lot of negative things about western world too,but by being someone who have experienced being at both sides i can say that every nation has good and bad sides&people.
when our tv shows news about abu gharib then my mom thinks that Americans are bad people because of looking at them,i feel terrible too but it can not represant the whole nation."some" muslims are not the only ones who do all the evil work on this earth,trust me.there have always been evil things on this earth thousands of years without muslims being involved .it is about us,human beings desiring more n more.
you are a patriotic American and you have your opinions about the case of Ali.when i look at the subject from your side i can understand you even though from my side it looks different.we have no reason to argue or fight about it.
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Apr 9, 2007 17:33:19 GMT -5
Also,
Bill, no disrespect meant, but I disagree with your assessment about Tyson being able to stop Ali.
I am not saying Tyson would beat him, but I am saying that I don't think because Foreman or Shavers couldn't stop him, Tyson couldn't.
My opinion: Those fighters threw one punch at a time and were very slow. As you must remember, Tyson threw 6 and 7 punch combinations that were lightning fast. When/IF he landed them, I don't believe anyone could have withstood that much punishment.
Casey
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Post by Mark Evans on Apr 9, 2007 17:41:59 GMT -5
Casey, True Elvis was in Germany. The war was in Korea. Point was/is the military keeps most celebrity types out of the battle as they can be used for other purposes.
I'll give you Tyson over Shavers. I still think Shavers had more power.
Young George would have destroyed Tyson.
Norton had a style that gave Ali fits. That crab style defense would not have held up against Tyson.
Fraizer, Tyson would have been a great fight. However, Joe had a lot more heart. Mike didn't fare well against some one who fought back. Great point about the 6-7 punch combinations. See you in Tahoe!!
Ty, Since you don't know me I won't take the "kiss ass" statement personal. I do however support all people who base their opinions on facts even when I don't agree with them.
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Post by Ty Kissner on Apr 9, 2007 17:51:50 GMT -5
Mark you said "Ty, Since you don't know me I won't take the "kiss ass" statement personal. I do however support all people who base their opinions on facts even when I don't agree with them."
No need to take it personal, it is all explained in a pm i just sent to you...
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Post by Bill Maenza on Apr 9, 2007 20:59:00 GMT -5
Finally Bill, I was wondering when you would defend your self. Mark - Sorry - I had not been checking the OT board for a while :-) Also,Bill, no disrespect meant, but I disagree with your assessment about Tyson being able to stop Ali. Casey, Maybe I mis-typed, I don't believe that Tyson would have beat Ali, I believe that he would have hurt him, but not stopped him. As for the others: Tyson (like Frazier) would have been destroyed by Foreman as he was too strong, mean and not intimidated. Everyone who was not afraid of Tyson beat him (i.e.: Douglas). Anyone afraid (Spinks) folded like the "Rabbitt" (a reference some of you older guys might remember). Shavers /Tyson and Norton / Tyson would have been fun to watch. Prime Holmes eats Tyson for lunch. No way the punk survives a jab like holmes had - may have been the best in the division.
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Post by TK on Apr 10, 2007 5:17:42 GMT -5
But the main reason for writing is you are incorrect about Elvis. The King was regular army. Sgt. Presley was stationed in Germany and did his time and duties like anyone else. but he was there... .... WOW....so many diff arguements on one Holyfield poll...how cool is that.... and TYson & holyfield would have killed Ali.....diff day & age... TK
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Post by Casey Szparaga on Apr 10, 2007 6:57:11 GMT -5
Mark, I agree with your point about the celebrities, just not Elvis. The Korean War ended in 1953, Elvis didn't go in the army until 1958. Also, I agree Frazier had more heart than Tyson, but I was referring to a prime Tyson, with Rooney. Frazier more heart, yes, but that only gets him put to sleep early by a bigger, stronger, faster, harder puncher. Now leave the King out of this Bill, I agree about Holmes jab and think he is the most underrated champion ever. You probably know that Tyson destroyed an older Homes. Not sure about the two in their prime. I would take the punk. Nice talking to you. Casey
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Post by enginterzi on Apr 10, 2007 7:43:25 GMT -5
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