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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 28, 2006 13:30:26 GMT -5
Engin -- One rule I always use for the rankings are the results from supermatches. The winner of a 3 out of 5 supermatch should be ranked ahead of the loser. This is because both pullers arrive prepared and fresh.
Chad pulled 176's in Vegas. I realize he has put on weight and if he starts to consistently pull big tournaments at a higher weight, he will be removed from the 80kg rankings.
Davey -- I believe Denis pulled 5 classes at the Superstar showdown, so I don't think it's necessarily fair for his ranking to be affected because of this. However, has Travis beat anyone else in the rankings?
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 28, 2006 12:46:20 GMT -5
That’s what I like about rankings – they get people talking!
I’ll try to answer everybody’s questions:
Travis – The tournament where you beat someone doesn’t come too much into play for the rankings, although if you beat someone at a major tournament it is more impressive as all pullers usually arrive prepared. The rankings are primarily based on results I find online. If you’ve beaten some of the pullers on the list since late 2004, please let me know who, and at what tournaments. Please also let me know who on the list has beaten you since late 2004.
Harold – Although you’ve beaten a few of the people on the list, many are not recent wins, and you’ve also lost matches to non-ranked pullers. You will be ranked once again if your performance continues to improve. Also, single wins over a puller do not automatically rank one puller over another.
Engin – James Smith may possibly be the second best 198 puller, but he has not competed enough to know for sure. He looked amazing at the Arnolds, but many of the top ranked pullers were not there. The rankings are supposed to be a current snapshot of who the best armwrestlers are right now, which is why Matt Girdner is further down the list. He hasn’t competed much since last summer (I believe he is/was nursing an injury), so I don’t think he should be ranked higher right now. If he comes back and does well, he will go back up.
Leonard – Chris and Bill are currently ranked in the 80kg class because that is where they usually compete at big tournaments. If they consistently start pulling in a higher class, they will be removed from the 80kg lists.
Willie – Cobra is not ranked because I don’t think his recent performance has indicated that he should be presently ranked.
Dan – Similar to my reasoning for not ranking Matt G higher, Mike’s been nursing an injury. Also, his recent right-hand performances have not been as strong as in years past.
Karen – Originally only two women’s classes were ranked (60kg and Unlimited). I received comments from many people who thought these classes were unfair, as it left many good pullers of average weight unranked. I agreed and added a 70kg class. I figured if I would be ranking three classes, these three would be good ones. Ranking the women’s classes is very difficult, because there are far fewer women who consistently travel and compete against different pullers (as compared to the men). For this reason it becomes very difficult to reasonably accurately rank the women. Perhaps it would be easier to rank just two classes (65kg and unlimited), but for now I will continue with these. You are correct, Joette hasn’t pulled in a year, and she will soon be dropped off the list if she doesn’t compete in the near future. My ranking system is not ONLY based on who beat who. My rankings are intended to represent the current state of armwrestling. As decribed on PinArm, the questions I try to answer are: “If there were to be a tournament in six weeks, and it was in only one arm, and the prize was to be $10 million for first place, then who would win? (rank #1) If that person would not enter, then who would win? (rank #2) If the top two ranked persons would not enter, then who would win? (rank #3) etc.” Some assumptions absolutely need to be made to answer these questions, as not every puller has pulled everyone else. There’s no clear cut way to develop the rankings. How do you rank pullers A, B, and C, if A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A? It’s not easy and so you have to take other things into consideration. Also, one win over someone does not necessarily mean you should automatically be ranked ahead of that person. Other factors may come into play. My rankings are not supposed to be a list of the competitors who pull most often, or competitors who have had the most wins in the past – they are supposed to show who the best pullers are at this point in time. I encourage anyone to develop a ranking system based purely on results, without assumptions, and you will see what problems you encounter.
Pete – I agree that Ron’s win over Kenny was impressive, however because Kenny pulled two classes, I don’t know how fair it would be to change his ranking based on this match. I moved Ron up a bit and agree that he should possibly be ranked higher, but it is difficult for me to pinpoint exactly where he should fit in.
Ron – Will you be competing in Vegas? This tournament is great for helping me with the rankings because so many top level pullers show up.
I hope this answers most of your questions. Please continue to provide feedback as I want to have the rankings be as accurate as possible. I enjoy working on these, even though it opens myself up to criticism. I’m totally fine with that and I will continue to try to explain/defend my choices.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 28, 2006 12:44:37 GMT -5
That’s what I like about rankings – they get people talking!
I’ll try to answer everybody’s questions:
Travis – The tournament where you beat someone doesn’t come too much into play for the rankings, although if you beat someone at a major tournament it is more impressive as all pullers usually arrive prepared. The rankings are primarily based on results I find online. If you’ve beaten some of the pullers on the list since late 2004, please let me know who, and at what tournaments. Please also let me know who on the list has beaten you since late 2004.
Harold – Although you’ve beaten a few of the people on the list, many are not recent wins, and you’ve also lost matches to non-ranked pullers. You will be ranked once again if your performance continues to improve. Also, single wins over a puller do not automatically rank one puller over another.
Engin – James Smith may possibly be the second best 198 puller, but he has not competed enough to know for sure. He looked amazing at the Arnolds, but many of the top ranked pullers were not there. The rankings are supposed to be a current snapshot of who the best armwrestlers are right now, which is why Matt Girdner is further down the list. He hasn’t competed much since last summer (I believe he is/was nursing an injury), so I don’t think he should be ranked higher right now. If he comes back and does well, he will go back up.
Leonard – Chris and Bill are currently ranked in the 80kg class because that is where they usually compete at big tournaments. If they consistently start pulling in a higher class, they will be removed from the 80kg lists.
Willie – Cobra is not ranked because I don’t think his recent performance has indicated that he should be presently ranked.
Dan – Similar to my reasoning for not ranking Matt G higher, Mike’s been nursing an injury. Also, his recent right-hand performances have not been as strong as in years past.
Karen – Originally only two women’s classes were ranked (60kg and Unlimited). I received comments from many people who thought these classes were unfair, as it left many good pullers of average weight unranked. I agreed and added a 70kg class. I figured if I would be ranking three classes, these three would be good ones. Ranking the women’s classes is very difficult, because there are far fewer women who consistently travel and compete against different pullers (as compared to the men). For this reason it becomes very difficult to reasonably accurately rank the women. Perhaps it would be easier to rank just two classes (65kg and unlimited), but for now I will continue with these. You are correct, Joette hasn’t pulled in a year, and she will soon be dropped off the list if she doesn’t compete in the near future. My ranking system is not ONLY based on who beat who. My rankings are intended to represent the current state of armwrestling. As decribed on PinArm, the questions I try to answer are: “If there were to be a tournament in six weeks, and it was in only one arm, and the prize was to be $10 million for first place, then who would win? (rank #1) If that person would not enter, then who would win? (rank #2) If the top two ranked persons would not enter, then who would win? (rank #3) etc.” Some assumptions absolutely need to be made to answer these questions, as not every puller has pulled everyone else. There’s no clear cut way to develop the rankings. How do you rank pullers A, B, and C, if A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A? It’s not easy and so you have to take other things into consideration. Also, one win over someone does not necessarily mean you should automatically be ranked ahead of that person. Other factors may come into play. My rankings are not supposed to be a list of the competitors who pull most often, or competitors who have had the most wins in the past – they are supposed to show who the best pullers are at this point in time. I encourage anyone to develop a ranking system based purely on results, without assumptions, and you will see what problems you encounter.
Pete – I agree that Ron’s win over Kenny was impressive, however because Kenny pulled two classes, I don’t know how fair it would be to change his ranking based on this match. I moved Ron up a bit and agree that he should possibly be ranked higher, but it is difficult for me to pinpoint exactly where he should fit in.
Ron – Will you be competing in Vegas? This tournament is great for helping me with the rankings because so many top level pullers show up.
I hope this answers most of your questions. Please continue to provide feedback as I want to have the rankings be as accurate as possible. I enjoy working on these, even though it opens myself up to criticism. I’m totally fine with that and I will continue to try to explain/defend my choices.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 27, 2006 20:55:18 GMT -5
The North American Armwrestling Rankings have been updated. This is likely the last time this site will be updated, as Gord Squire and I are in the process of finalizing the details of how the rankings will be updated on the Pinnacle Armwrestling site (www.pinarm.com). I encourage everyone to discuss the rankings on pinarm, or on this board. armwrestlingrankings.bravehost.com
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 27, 2006 16:05:25 GMT -5
No, Denis and Anthony did not have a chance to pull.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 27, 2006 12:33:13 GMT -5
No, Gary just went to watch the action.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 26, 2006 12:32:15 GMT -5
To answer a few questions:
George was upset about the way Anthony's pin was called and decided on the spot to withdraw from the tournament. I talked to him after he had called down and he regretted his decision about withdrawing -- he was just really upset in the heat of the moment.
Denis was there but did not have a great day. No one flashed him in the matches he lost -- they were usually long hook mathces.
Both Simon and Sylvain Perron competed. Simon pulled right and left in the 220's and Sylvain pulled left only in the 220's and supers. Both had quite a few good matches, however on this day, no one could slow down either John or Travis.
Del Mudryk, the winner of the 187 class is a very strong young puller from Alberta. He won the Canadian Nationals in 2004 in the 187 class, but he hasn't competed in many big tournaments in the past couple of years. He looked amazing.
Paul Belluz looked amazing in the 154's -- especially in the left. All of his matches lasted less than a second.
The amateur classes also had great competition. Congratulations to Aydin Hasasu for winning the 187 class (I can't remember which arm).
Congratulations are also in order for Rick Heidebrecht who managed right hand wins against Devon and Ron.
It was a great event. Thanks Mike Gould for putting it on!
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 25, 2006 22:32:36 GMT -5
What an awesome event! The calibre was unbelievable. The Devon/Ron supermatch was extremely exciting -- as expected the matches were battles. Ron won the first and Devon won the next three. Here are some partial results for the pro classes:
Men's Right 0-154
1st - Vern Martel
Men's Right 155-187
1st - Del Mudryk 2nd - Anthony Dall'Antonia 3rd - Troy Eaton 4th - Aaron Lengyel
Men's Right 188-220
1st - John Brzenk
Men's Right 221+
1st - Travis Bagent 2nd - John Brzenk
Women's Right 0-143
1st - Barb Zalepa 2nd - Tamara Finn 3rd - Heather Pembrook
Women's Right 144+
1st - Joyce King 2nd - Josee Morneau 3rd - Barb Zalepa
Men's Left 0-154
1st - Paul Belluz 2nd - Maksim Khodau
Men's Left 155-187
1st - Jason Bubray 2nd - Kody King 3rd - Paul Belluz 4th - Aaron Lengyel
Men's Left 188-220
1st - John Brzenk
Men's Left 221+
1st - Travis Bagent 2nd - Earl Wilson
Sorry for the sparse results.
I'd really like to thank Ron Bath for coming up for this supermatch. I think everyone has been wanting to see this match up for quite some time. The supermatch definitely took something out of both pullers for the regular tournament (Devon pulled 4 classes).
Travis and John had an agreement, so we didn't get to see a real match between them. Hopefully we'll get to see it next week in Kansas City.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 23, 2006 13:55:27 GMT -5
There was a brief interest in setting up a right hand supermatch between Anthony and Denis at this year's Mike Gould Classic, but I think both decided they wanted to focus on the regular tournament.
Up until the late '90s, Denis beat George every time they pulled. As far as I know they didn't pull each other between 2000 and 2004. George finally beat Denis for the first time at the 2005 Mike Gould Classic (if I remember correctly). In 2005 they pulled 4 times and Denis won once. I'm curious to see if Denis can do it again. We'll see on Saturday.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 22, 2006 17:36:12 GMT -5
The 187's is another class with lots of very strong pullers. A few who I expect are likely to show are Crazy George, Denis Dubreuil, Troy Eaton, (Engin Terzi?), Pat Mastrangelo, Anthony Dall'Antonia, Jacques Aubin, etc... Any predictions as to who will win the right and who will win the left?
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 21, 2006 22:06:33 GMT -5
Many potential scenarios! It will be very exciting! Devon and Ron will have at least a couple of hours between their supermatch and their first matches in the regular tournament. I don't know too much about Ron's recuperation speed, but I am confident that Devon will still be able to perform very well after a few hours rest.
Engin -- what do you think about the left arm? I think everyone was surprised when Earl took the class last year.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 21, 2006 21:33:49 GMT -5
The Mike Gould Classic is only a few days away and I can't wait! The top ranked heavyeights in North America are expected to be there. Assuming the following pullers all show and pull the supers classes, who will win the right and who will win the left? John Brzenk, Travis Bagent, Jerry Cadorette, Earl Wilson, Ron Bath, Devon Larratt, Sylvain Perron... What does everyone think? I look forward to seeing everyone on Saturday.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Mar 1, 2006 22:48:54 GMT -5
Due to popular demand, I have added a 70kg women's class to the North American rankings: armwrestlingrankings.bravehost.comPlease note that it is extremely difficult to develop rankings for the women's classes because so few classes are offered at most tournaments. Also, there are fewer women who travel as much as men, so interesting matchups between top level competitors don't happen as often. I did the best I could based on the results I could find. If you think anything is way off, please let me know. I don't expect these to be perfect right away and I'd like to make improvements if they are warranted.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Feb 26, 2006 17:21:58 GMT -5
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Post by Eric Roussin on Feb 24, 2006 10:07:32 GMT -5
George - One of the main reasons I don't have rankings below 154 is because it is more difficult to accurately put together. Here in Canada, aside from the national championshiops very few tournaments offer classes below 154 so it would be hard to determine would pull in a lighter class.
Aydin - Yes, you are right that Neil beat Denis at the 2005 Mike Gould Classic. However, since that time Denis has gone on to easily win the Canadian Championships and the Left 175 class at the first NAA event. He also gave Luke Reimer 3 good long matches in the 205 class at the Battle in the Capital II -- something Neil has not yet been able to do. The Denis Dubreuil of today is not the same Denis of early 2005.
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